Are Toyota's early struggles a forecast of things to come, or just growing pains

[FS Myron]

Toyota has struggled out of the box. But they are working with all new teams with the exception of Bill Davis racing. Are their struggles indicative of how they'll run forever, or just a sign of growing pains? Most likely, they'll get it together and dominate like they do in the Truck series. What do you think? Let the Frontstretch know.

[KurtBuschFan]

Well I think it's a bit of both.  Toyota didn't really bring in a HOT driver or one that's just spectacular on the track.  They're gonna have growing pains just like any new manufacturer would, but it seems like they're struggling more in the Cup series than they did in trucks the first year.  Now for all I know I could be eating my words next year, but it doesn't look like it so far.

[falcon325]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I don't think Toyota came into Cup with the intent of blowing the doors off the competition in year one.  Doing that might have turned off fans in a big way and Toyota does not want that.  I think they are planning on acting like my transplanted garden plants: "Sleep, creep, leap."  In three years, they will be very competitive, if not dominant.

OTOH, I don't think the boys in Tokyo planned on things being quite THIS bad.  After all, to ease yourself into the sport, it would be nice to at least make an occasional race.

[flamehothead]

I agree with falcon and KBF.

I think Toyota intended on at least making every race if not getting into the top 35 with one or two teams to help out next season. I myself would like to see the top 35 go away but thats another story. I also think if Toyota showed up and started winning out of the bag they would have put up with J.Roush and I know I wouldn't want that LOL. Seriously though, Like falcon said alot of people would have turned away had they come out and blown away the competition. I think they need to take steps a little bigger than BABY steps if there going to compete in Cup. At this rate I don't look for them to be competitive even in 3 years because they are moving VERY slow IMO. As of right now only ONE Toyota that I know of has made EVERY race and that is NOT a very good Percentagewhen there are I think Seven Toyotas out there. I'm like KBF, I might be eating my words next season but as of right now I don't see it happening.

[ChromeHorn]

It's a sign of things to come for the remainder of 2007. As has been stated, Toyota didn't expect to come in and dominate, but making a race every now and then would be nice.

When your marquee/factory-backed team (MWR) is facing as many issues as it is (Daytona cheating, missing races, PCPs almost used up, no one in top 35 and now the Waltrip "incident") they can't be anything but disoriented with how this whole Cup transition is going. On top of the insanity that is quickly becoming MWR, Toyota has a two-time Chase participant in Jeremy Mayfield that can't make a race in his standard car, BDR's Blaney who is now out of the top 35 and Team Red Bull, that no one expected anything out of anyway, trying to learn how the difference between a front air dam and a front splitter. Don't kid yourself, things are far worse in the Toyota camp than they will have you believe.

The key to getting this whole shebang moving is landing Penske Racing South in the next two years. TRD needs a legitimate big boy team in the ranks. Without it, they have neither the expertise nor the talent (Borland and Richert aside) to further their development.

[supermod52]

Toyota misjudged the ability of Michael Waltrip to assemble a group of engineers, mechanics, and staff that knew how to build and set up competitve race cars.  Michael, known as the best "pitchman" in NASCAR has never been noted for his mechanical prowess or engineering background.  Toyota probably felt that he could surround himself with the best help money could buy, but sometimes that help isn't all that it's cracked up to be and sometimes that help isn't for sale.  I'm sure a lot of NASCAR mechanics and crew members were approached by team Toyota and MWR, but when they looked at the deal, they probably decided to stay where they were comfortible.  Bill Davis looks to be the strongest of the teams and thats not so surprising since he was the designated Toyota guy from the start.  Dave Blaney has looked very good in the Busch car and the CAT Cup car.  Reutiman is starting to look better.  Almindinger is probably wishing he had stayed in Champ Car.

[Chris]

SUperMod52... I think you are pretty much right on Track
Mikey is such a 'pitch man" I think they sold Toyota such a "yarn" they had some confidence in him,.. and he had NO CLUE what he was (or still is) doing.
Hie was missing races LAST season driving the "old" cars he knew something about,... and as soon as he jumped into the Toyota's to start competiting he was sunk.
Toyota should have been smart enough to see the handwriting on the wall there.

I think Bill Davis' team would be the 'best' "Team" of the Toyota Camp... but I don't put a lot of stock in Mayfield.  He's way WAY overrated.
The best driver that hasn't shown much is Vickers,.. I figured he would of made most ALL the races, and be locked into the top 35 in points.  Not sure what is going on there.
Allmandinger is NO racer in a stock car,.. and should be in the CTS or BGN at best.  No business being in the CUP series.

Jarrett,... He got to start ALL the first 5 races,... but STILL couldn't manage to be in the top 35 in points after that... THAT my friends is totally pitiful  When he runs out provisionals... his season will be as good as over.
Waltrip ought to be embarrassed that a real GREEN rookie is gonna be carrying the banner of THAT team...

[flamehothead]

I agree chris, Toyota should have found a better team to back. I think Mikey could sell a Gas Tank to a person that just bought a Battery Powered Car and THAT is why Toyota went with him, He IS one HELL of a salesman. That is also the problem because he isn't a Race Car driver and they DO need one of those. I agree that Toyota should have went with BDR.

I was wondering why Mikey hasn't Fired the Crew Chief yet. I know he said if the Crew Chief came forward and told him who did it they wouldn't be fired BUT if they didn't then they would be fired. As far as I know he still works for MWR.

[Chris]

I was wondering why Mikey hasn't Fired the Crew Chief yet. I know he said if the Crew Chief came forward and told him who did it they wouldn't be fired BUT if they didn't then they would be fired. As far as I know he still works for MWR.

Well THIS is obvious... Mikey can't fire HIMSELF... LOL

[falcon325]

Toyota misjudged the ability of Michael Waltrip to assemble a group of engineers, mechanics, and staff that knew how to build and set up competitve race cars.  Michael, known as the best "pitchman" in NASCAR has never been noted for his mechanical prowess or engineering background. 

I think you nailed it, supermod.  And the bad thing is that, since Alan K, the history of owner-drivers has not been a pretty picture.  And those guys weren't involved in frequent ads, various broadcasting endeavors, not to mention nursemaiding a new nameplate into the sport. 

I still say Toyota didn't WANT to come in and blow the doors off the competition.  But I sincerely doubt that they planned on THIS low a profile.   

[Busch Babe 899]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I don't think Toyota came into Cup with the intent of blowing the doors off the competition in year one.  Doing that might have turned off fans in a big way and Toyota does not want that.  I think they are planning on acting like my transplanted garden plants: "Sleep, creep, leap."  In three years, they will be very comppetitive, if not dominant.

OTOH, I don't think the boys in Tokyo planned on things being quite THIS bad.  After all, to ease yourself into the sport, it would be nice to at least make an occasional race.

I'm with Falcon here...they'll get there...sure it's starting slower than they planned, but the competition is so much stiffer in the Cup series than in Busch or Cup...I think there would have been a LOT of suspicions raised if they had come in and immediately dominated...but give them a couple of years...by then, we'll be moaning that Toyota has an unfair advantage...

[falcon325]

I think there would have been a LOT of suspicions raised if they had come in and immediately dominated...but give them a couple of years...by then, we'll be moaning that Toyota has an unfair advantage...

Hey BB.  I just saw the article Cami and Beth did mentioning that Toyota has been told to cut back the horsepower in their Truck and Busch programs.  That sure pours gas on the flames of suspicion that NA$CAR winked and giggled at Toyota to get their big dollars into the sport.  I swear, CTS is to the point where I can't see why all the competitors aren't driving Jap scrap.  But now that Toyota is killing the competition, the Daytona Beach suits are back to pushing parity.  Which is how "stock car racing" stopped being stock.  Sigh.   

I guess we all should remember that the good ol' days weren't always that good for racing.  There were plenty of times where the winner was on a lap by himself.  There were times when he lapped the field multiple times.  Yawn.  And this at tracks we now remember as placed that produced great racing. 

And, in addition to the "creative engineering" of great minds like Smokey Yunick and Junior Johnson, there were shenanigans by the factories back in the days when "stock" meant stock (how many of those winged cars ever actually made it out onto the streets?). 

But, the sponsoring body taking it upon itself to promote parity opened the way for us suspicious minds to be--well--suspicious.  Once The Brian and Uncle Mike Helton put their greasy thumbs on the scales, our opinions as to how fair the racing is depends on how much we trust them to be fair and honest.    

[Busch Babe 899]

Yup...trust 'em about as far as we can throw 'em...and I have poor upper body strength, being a woman, so even with the newer slimmed-down version of Helton, that ain't far at ALL!! 

[jaydwy]

It seems the media gave us all this hype about Toyota entering the cup series. It took a good 2 season for Toyota to really make any real noticeable impact on the truck series. With that said it may well be the same for cup cars.