Speeding on pit road - Can't they make this simpler?

[FS Ren]

Yeah, what I meant was that with a 55 mph speed limit and a 5 mph cushion, they'll push 60 and end up getting a penalty when they hit 60.1.  I heard John Darby talking about it in an interview with Claire B Lange on XM about a year ago, maybe less, and what he said was that once the car goes over that absolute max speed, a light goes on the computer in the tower to signify which car was speeding and they immediately issue a penalty to the offending team.

The remark about the conspiracy wasn't directed to your comments, it was in response to a suggestion that NASCAR used the pit road speed penalties to manipulate the race outcome.  I think they're on the up-and-up on that one.

[Blu]

Thanks Ren, that clarifies it right there. I wasnt sure what you were saying exactly and now I do. That makes sense as its over the cushion.

I still think the thing to do is just do away with the cushion.Or...to be more exact say the 55 includes the cushion. EVERYONE bumps, or gets as close to  that as possible  anyways , sooo... It really serves no purpose (the cushion) except to make a higher allowable pit road speed anyways IMO.   Just set a number and say be at or below it , or be penalized.

On the other thing, THANKS again I was a tad confused on that too. Im confused a lot LOLOL

Just curious...does anyone know , are the tachs digital, or the old style with a hand and face? Seems a  digital diplay (like "3557"would be a LOT easier to read precisely than the old 10,20,30,40, etc. with the hash marks for hundreds on them IMO. On the other hand...it might just drive a guy nuts with those numbers flashing by up and down so fast .

[FS Ren]

They are analog tachs. Those are actually easier to read, because you don't have to really look at what it says, just look at the location of the needle.   Back when they didn't really put tachs in street cars, we'd clamp  one on the steering column  and rotate it so that the engine redline was straight up so it could be seen at a glance where the shift point was while drag racing.  Legally at the track, of course!

[Chris]

Just curious...does anyone know , are the tachs digital, or the old style with a hand and face? Seems a  digital diplay (like "3557"would be a LOT easier to read precisely than the old 10,20,30,40, etc. with the hash marks for hundreds on them IMO. On the other hand...it might just drive a guy nuts with those numbers flashing by up and down so fast

To the best of my knowledge they still run the 'old style' face tachs (and everything else.)
Also most teams (at least used to) turn and adjust the dials so that when everything if functioning at proper operating temps, etc it points straight up.  That way all they have to do is glance down and see if the pointers are straight up and know everything is OK.... SO the water temp, oil temp, etc is turned and put in at all weird angles and looking in the car as an observer just "looks" weird.


LOL Me and Ren posted at the same time

[SMOKEN14]

In Matt Kenseth case it helps to look at your tech 

[HUDSON HORNET]

They are analog tachs. Those are actually easier to read, because you don't have to really look at what it says, just look at the location of the needle.   Back when they didn't really put tachs in street cars, we'd clamp  one on the steering column  and rotate it so that the engine redline was straight up so it could be seen at a glance where the shift point was while drag racing.  Legally at the track, of course!

Oh, Of COURSE, Ren!
Goes without saying.
Right?     

[FS Ren]

Oh, Of COURSE, Ren!
Goes without saying.
Right?     

You never know when my son might wander by lol

Ren

[Tyyrus]

That's an entirely different question Ren.
Make em physically stop speeding?? Im not sure you can honestly...

I would suggest that they  lower the "cushion" to maybe 3 mph (5 mph is too much IMO for any error on a tach for RPM's)over OR, even better yet IMO... do away with it (the cushion) entirely. You're either below, or at the given pit road speed...OR you get the  penalty.... PERIOD! 
As I said with the above question...this  just doesnt seem that hard to me either (to be at or below the speed) and...as an officer of  the law once told me... "It ain't a suggestion"

As you said, WITH a cushion ALL drivers will push to be at THAT cushion limit (or they should be). As you also said,"It's still a race, even in the pits" and , I agree completely.

 A cushion, merely means to me that I have a higher pit road speed allowable.PERIOD!

And, just to clarify...I never suggested there was a conspiracy, or manipulation with this. NASCAR however DOES get the reports though, and does the penalizing so...I'll just leave it at that.



Im lost, or just not getting it bud, you'll have to clarify that one for me .
WHY will they get caught speeding???They shouldn't!!..NASCAR told them there was a 5 mph cushion, and that means the allowable pit road speed is up to 60 mph right from NASCAR's mouth! Right??? Im lost here....unless you're saying some will be caught depending on what??  Maybe, if NASCAR determines it is intentional ??

 



LOL, Now THAT is a conspiracy! "We let so and so speed because we didnt feeli it was intentional but, penalized so and so, because we feel he did it on purpose"   Oh boy! Let ME sell beer cans THAT night!!

Actually Blu it was I , who Ren was advising that in His Opinion it was not a Conspiracy ! Well Ren ..Sorry but I don't buy it for a minute . I have seen numerous times were Nascar has identified one driver as speeding , while another driver entering with him at the same rate of speed and pitting right beside said driver was not penalized ! So until Nascar quits playing silly fool and gets into the this Century with a form of simple mechanics , rather than a bandage ...oh.. follow the Pace Car in second gear and try to determine you pit road speed accordingly bunk , I say their leaving a loop hole for Speculative and Subjective Rulings in this matter ! Sure a cushion helps , but also identifies quite clearly how imprecise a practice of following a Pace Car is , to calibrate a Pit Road RPM. King Brian can't fool all of us Fan's all of the Time Bro !     

[FS Ren]

Really it doesn't matter what they do to determine the speed on the track.  All the engineers know the formula to turn engine RPM into track speed, so the teams should know what their engine RPM on pit road needs to be to keep from speeding even without the pace car's help.  The cushion is there so that if your turning the RPMs that translate to the pit road speed limit, even with the tach bouncing back and forth a bit because of the engine braking then you'll be OK. They've been doing it that way since they implemented the pit road speeds back in the late 80's (I think, maybe early 90's).  The problem is that if a car is going at only pit road speed and not using as much of that cushion as they can, they'll lose two or three positions in the pit. 

The reason that it looks like two teams are going the same speed and only one gets penalized though, is because one is just over the speed limit and the other is just under. They're both pushing the limit and one team is just a little too fast. NASCAR uses the loop speeds now to figure it out so just a little too fast ends up being a penalty.   You may not be able to see the difference with your eye, but the computers can tell easily.  No conspiracy, just tighter tolerances due to the computers.

Of course, if you believe that NASCAR is attempting to orchestrate the outcome of every race, then nothing I, or anyone else says, is going to make a difference. I don't believe that to be the case, but heck, Rosie O'Donnell thinks that the US Government blew up the WTC, so it's not like I haven't heard less plausible senarios.

Ren


Edit: NASCAR mandated pit road speeds beginning in 1990.

[Tyyrus]

  Maybe, if NASCAR determines it is intentional ??

 



LOL, Now THAT is a conspiracy! "We let so and so speed because we didnt feeli it was intentional but, penalized so and so, because we feel he did it on purpose"   Oh boy! Let ME sell beer cans THAT night!!

I'am with You on this One Blu , much to Long in the Tooth to buy into Ren's Idealistic Nascar , would Never Do...that !
Yeah and Viet Nam , was a Peace - Keeping Mission...Baby ! lol 

[flamehothead]

I know I will probably get Booed for this but why not do what F-1 does?

A driver gets to the Pit Stripe and pushes a button which won't let the car go over a certain speed No-Matter how far he pushes on the throttle.

I know Nascar is supposed to be a STOCK car but honestly the COT throws that theory right out the window.

[HUDSON HORNET]

I know I will probably get Booed for this but why not do what F-1 does?

A driver gets to the Pit Stripe and pushes a button which won't let the car go over a certain speed No-Matter how far he pushes on the throttle.

I know Nascar is supposed to be a STOCK car but honestly the COT throws that theory right out the window.

Why automate even more things in NASCAR? Push this button for that and that button for this. Pretty soon, the drivers will be robots, just along for the ride and tradition. What happens to skills required to be successful? Watching pit road speeds is just part of the picture. If a driver finds it hard to concentrate on their pit road speeds, perhaps a penalty is in order. If it costs that driver dearly, so be it. NEXT time, they'll be paying more attention.

UNLESS, the driver who receives the penalty is one of my fantasy picks! THEN, I don't think it's fair, and they should get a free pass or get out of jail free, pass GO, AND, receive $200.              

[flamehothead]

Why automate even more things in NASCAR? Push this button for that and that button for this. Pretty soon, the drivers will be robots, just along for the ride and tradition.

That's where Nascar is headed anyway so why not get a jump on it lol.

Me personally, I think what they are doing is working but the subject of this post was Can't they make it Simpler and IMO pushing a Button is PRETTY simple. Well I'm sure someone would have trouble with it lmao.

I'm sure most people have seen the Speed Machine that the police put on the side of the road and you can see how fast your going so why not do this? Put one of those Machines next to the Pit Wall and after the driver takes his Qualifying lap he can roll thru Pit Road and get his speed. It would be the same as if he were coming in during racing conditions.

[HUDSON HORNET]

"Rosemary! Which damn button do I press..............?"
                                  Richard Nixon
                      Missing Watergate tapes

                                       

[Tyyrus]

I'm sure most people have seen the Speed Machine that the police put on the side of the road and you can see how fast your going so why not do this? Put one of those Machines next to the Pit Wall and after the driver takes his Qualifying lap he can roll thru Pit Road and get his speed. It would be the same as if he were coming in during racing conditions.

Now Your Talkin ..Man !  c/w "Your Busted..Baby" under Picture of John Darby !