Yikes! NASCAR is suing AT&T for 100 million!

[falcon325]

If you hate NASCAR and think they make too much money, stop complaining and do something about it. Go to an ARCA  or ASA race that isn't at an ISC track 

OK Ren.  I'll try this one more time. 

Contrary to the tightly held belief down around Daytona Beach, top-level "stock" car racing in the US is not the exclusive property of the France clan.  There are many other "stakeholders," from drivers and owners to mechanics and pit crew members to ticket-takers and souvenir vendors to--pay close attention to this one, Ren--fans.  That’s right.  Fans.

Not all of us are willing to just throw up our hands and let the France’s continue to screw up the sport we love to fatten their own bankrolls.  Corporate America is seeing declining ratings and a smattering of empty seats.  Look on any message board, and the suits will hear the grumbling of disillusioned fans.   Your advice amounts to telling us to cut off our noses to spite our faces.   I'd rather let the advertisers know that there is no love lost on the Frances.

[The Voice]

 I'd rather let the advertisers know that there is no love lost on the Frances.

You can do that, of course, but it won't have much impact, if any.

I have yet to see a message board where the posters express anything but disdain for the "owners" of their sport. Everyone thinks their league's leadership is screwed up.

[Blu]

Not....uhhh......Curling!

[falcon325]

I'm thinking of CART, which lost its title sponsor and was screwed.

NASCAR would not be viable without a big money primary sponsor these days.

Your point about CART is well-taken...up to a point.
 
Losing primary sponsorship would clearly hurt.  But would it make NAS$CAR unviable? 

I don’t know about that one, Voice.  Other than Indy, how many times did CART run in front of 160,000 paying fans?  Or have a major over-the-air TV deal? 

If the primary sponsor didn’t have to shell out $700 million, maybe they would be less hyper about allowing competitors in.  After all, the Home Despot car runs at Lowes.  We have the Coca-Cola 600, the Pepsi 400, the Dodge Dealers 400, etc.  Those sponsors are cool with having competitors involved in things they sponsor. 

The last major sponsor dust up I can remember is when the Frances took money from Powerade for the right to intrusively display their product on the roof of cars sponsored by Gatorade.  There, the deal wasn’t the amount of money so much as the Frances letting Powerade elbow Gatorade out of the way.  It was sweet watching Gatorade drivers literally elbowing those crappy Powerade bottles off the top of their cars.

In both the current cell wars and the earlier sport drink altercation, the common thread was NA$CAR stepping in and screwing established sponsors in order to get more money.  If they keep doing that, the sport will have a hard time finding sponsors.

[flamehothead]

I realize that everyone loves Alltell and Cingular and hates the evil Nextel that pays for everything, but emotions don't come into play when you're talking about contracts.

Actually Jr8girl and I both use Sprint so it has nothing to do with how I feel about Sprint/Nextel.

[Tyyrus]

Not....uhhh......Curling!

Well not at the World Championships...anyways lol !

[Earl]

Well!
Wouldn't it be something if the courts got a peek at the Official NA$CAR Rulebook?
Hmmmmmmm?

I wonder if The Brian REALLY wants THAT to happen? 

What's that I hear?
Laughter?   

While the courts are at it, why not get The Brian to open the NA$CAR books too.
That should be interesting.

The Brian is acting more like a mad scientist every day.

ROTFLMAO, I think I better go buy some stock in 'White Out' if he's gonna pen up the rule book to scrutiny by the courts........

But Brian ain't doing anything that wasn't done by his Father or Grandfather before him.  It's always been about the $$$$$$.

[FS Ren]

OK Ren.  I'll try this one more time. 

Contrary to the tightly held belief down around Daytona Beach, top-level "stock" car racing in the US is not the exclusive property of the France clan.  There are many other "stakeholders," from drivers and owners to mechanics and pit crew members to ticket-takers and souvenir vendors to--pay close attention to this one, Ren--fans.  That’s right.  Fans.

Not all of us are willing to just throw up our hands and let the France’s continue to screw up the sport we love to fatten their own bankrolls.  Corporate America is seeing declining ratings and a smattering of empty seats.  Look on any message board, and the suits will hear the grumbling of disillusioned fans.   Your advice amounts to telling us to cut off our noses to spite our faces.   I'd rather let the advertisers know that there is no love lost on the Frances.

LOL, well, you keep trying there.  You missed my point.

I see this --> NA$CAR  all the time.  It's as if the fan that uses that acronym doesn't want NASCAR to be successful and make money.  I figure if that's what motivates the Frances, fine.  The way to make train loads of money is to give the customer an entertaining and quality product.  That's the beauty of sports entertainment economics. It's win-win. You pay to see what you enjoy, the promoter makes money. The promoter then improves and expands the product so more people will enjoy the product, making the promoter even more money.  God bless that $ in NASCAR. If not for $ there would be no NASCAR as we know it.

Now, there are plenty of stock car entertainment products out there, so if the complaint is that NASCAR is greedy and NASCAR is all about the money, then the ONLY way to convince them that you are not happy with what their greed, and read this a couple of times, because I rarely do "one more time" explanations so if you don't get it, not my problem. The only way to convince them that you are not happy with their greed is to TAKE AWAY THE MONEY REWARD. It's your only ethical choice. To do otherwise, is cheating yourself. Take your dollars to ARCA, ASALM, HPC, NHRA, IRL, SCCA or the local stock car track or drag strip or a parking lot autocross course in your town.   Anywhere that NASCAR and ISC can't get a piece of the action.  It's your money. It's your choice. Who do you want to see succeed while being a worthy shepherd of your money?

If you don't stop spending the money with NASCAR/ISC then you aren't really committed to the belief that NASCAR is too greedy and makes too much money. As if there was such a thing.

The other "shareholders"?  Don't worry about them. The teams and owners will go where the money and sponsorship is.  I haven't seen any of them get out of the series because they didn't like the way it was run.  I HAVE seen them shut down teams, even though they could afford to run it themselves, because of a lack of sponsorship. The vendors are even more money motivated than the promoter and the teams.  They'll follow you and your money.  And they don't care about the grumbling message boards, only the return on investment.

See, you're more powerful than you thought.   

Ren

[HUDSON HORNET]

HEY!

I'm one of those fans who uses "NA$CAR" --- sometimes.
When it fits.

What I'm opposed to is the making of money, which I'm NOT opposed to per se, over the betterment of racing. Also, the abandoning of long time fans for the new breed fan, and the influence they bring. Or talking out of both sides of the Powers That Be NASCAR's collective mouth.

When Dale hit the wall for the last time, and Mike Helton fixed the blame on a man who has dedicated his career to safety innovations, Bill Simpson, I was appalled and lost aLOT of respect of the organization called NASCAR. Especially when NASCAR is notorious for dragging their feet when it came to safety. Then to point fingers was uncalled for.

Then, as was mentioned in another post, selling the same real estate in the Winner's Circle and Victory Lane, both one in the same, to two competing products, only to, a few short years later, write into contracts that OTHERs can't do that, is talking out both sides of their collective mouths.

Then the Crown Royal deal. The teams couldn't have them for a sponsor, but NASCAR can make them the OFFICIAL NASCAR adult beverage. Oh, wait! Rule Change! It's okay now for the teams to have hard adult beverages as sponsors. I guess The Brian just needed to test the product first.
Ya reckon.

Now he sees killer attack palm stumps and proved that money trumps the law.
THAT's what I don't like.
The Brian's attitude.

Buy tracks and close 'em down. Then claim to be a "race promoter".
I fail to see the "promotion" involved in depriving race FANS of their local track(s).
(Colorado)

NASCAR has become a major monopoly. And uses it's power to ride rough-shod over the sport, now called "entertainment".
IMO, The Brian ISN'T a real racer. He's a cut-throat businessperson. I'm all for free enterprise. But when the big guys are allowed to gain complete control over the competition, when the competition is gone, what will they do? What about the SPORT of racing?

As for buying ANYthing with a NASCAR logo, I stopped doing that on the scale I used to, a few years ago. Back in the day, I spent easily $1,000 on collectables each season. Now, maybe $50, $100 tops.
I know, I know, NASCAR isn't about to go broke without my dollars. But it makes ME feel better. And considering The Brian bought all but one of the collectable car manufacturers, thereby controlling the costs and profits, and probably starving out the remaining manufacturer, I feel even better not contributing to stuffing The Brian's wallet any more than it is, and I'm sure it grows fatter every day.

When Bill France passed away, I heard alot of favorable things about him in tribute. Do you honestly think The Brian would be deserving of such tributes? Especially the one about how a hand-shake from Bill was worth more than a contract. A man of his word, they say. Are they saying it like it REALLY was? OR were they just stroking the Family France?

However Ren, your post DID cause me to reflect. I'll re-examine my thoughts and opinions and see just where NASCAR or NA$CAR stands after reading YOUR thoughts.

Thanx Ren.
I appreciate that.
Yes I do.

[Matt]

OK, so in this era of record profits please tell me how the racing is better now than it was in say 1992, the season that put this sport on the map? Because NASCAR had gotten so interested in owning tracks (through thier incestuous sister operation the ISC) and making money from the TV folks they allowed the "stock" to fall out of stock cars. The cars became so aerodynamically trick we were all introduced to the term "aero push" meaning a driver trying to overtake another driver could get close to him but then would lose all forward bite off the front end and be powerless to make the pass. So they tried the five and five rules. Which were a major league yahoo frickin disaster. There was no side by side racing. The cars were barely on the same straightaway. Two drivers combined to win two thirds of the races and the points battle was a blowout.

So along comes Brian's brain fart, the Car of Tomorrow. It doesn't allow for side by side racing. It makes passing all but impossible. But NASCAR throws some timely caution flags for "debris" and spices up the endings of races. All is well right? No the excitement is manufactured not inherent to the sport. And after a decade and a half of ignoring the competition side of things to focus on the financial NASCAR has a mess on thier hands that will take many years to fix even if some new visionary not intent on puckering up to kiss Brian's butt would emerge which is highly unlikely to happen with Brian surrounding himself with his yes men. Want to save stock car racing, or at least the NASCAR style of stock car racing? Give Brian control of network relations and have Humpy Wheeler, a true visionary, run the sport side of things.

Yes, you can make good money selling goose Mcnuggets from the goose that laid the golden egg, but that's a short term strategy to making money. NASCAR needs some vision to guide them through an uncertain time where the fast car is once again portrayed as evil, a waster of precious fossil fuels, a contributor to global warming and a menace to upright citizens on the highway. I don't see that vision right now. Why doesn't NASCAR at least mandate partially ethanol fuel?

NASCAR making more money makes the sport better for all us? I think not. In fact I blow my nose in your general direction. NASCAR making more money bought Toyota into the fold, which I still think is a serious mistake as American automakers struggle and NASCAR's traditional blue collar fans, the folks who  Bill France said win this countries wars, still resent it. To follow your line of reasoning, the loss of the Southern 500 at Darlington, where fans had loyally supported the race as best they could despite soaring ticket prices when all of a sudden NASCAR was "cool" not a "redneck Bubba" sport, so that California could have the Labor Day date to please the networks, is a good thing. California can't sell tickets worth a damn. The TV ratings approach what you might expect for the Hungarian Cooking Channel's "hangus marathon". And this is good for the sport?

At the end of every TV broadcast NASCAR issues the usual stern warnings about re-use of the telecast. (Watch out Youtube users!) then thanks the fans for all thier loyal support. Well the fact is less fans are watching those telecasts, less fans are attending the races, and less people are identifying themselves as stock car fans. If NASCAR claims 75 million fans why do only three of four million of them watch each race?

But discussion of the problems facing NASCAR is verboten. NASCAR's answer to the dissent isn't to fix the problems. It's to crush the dissenters with jackboot style heavy handedness. You can trust me on that. (or perhaps speak to Tony Stewart since drivers are readily accessible just like in the old days) To quote Tom Petty, I'm an insider, I've been burned by the fire, and I've had to live with some hard promises.....

[smyler]

I have to say that this discussion has made it harder to appreciate NASCAR as entertainment.  Maybe this is the old proverbial straw they talk about, for me.

[skool]

Wanna know something funny?

I was gonna say just EXACTLY what HH and Matt said, but since they said it first, I don't have too!

[flamehothead]

LOL, well, you keep trying there.  You missed my point.

I see this --> NA$CAR  all the time.  It's as if the fan that uses that acronym doesn't want NASCAR to be successful and make money.  I figure if that's what motivates the Frances, fine.  The way to make train loads of money is to give the customer an entertaining and quality product.  That's the beauty of sports entertainment economics. It's win-win. You pay to see what you enjoy, the promoter makes money. The promoter then improves and expands the product so more people will enjoy the product, making the promoter even more money.  God bless that $ in NASCAR. If not for $ there would be no NASCAR as we know it.

Now, there are plenty of stock car entertainment products out there, so if the complaint is that NASCAR is greedy and NASCAR is all about the money, then the ONLY way to convince them that you are not happy with what their greed, and read this a couple of times, because I rarely do "one more time" explanations so if you don't get it, not my problem. The only way to convince them that you are not happy with their greed is to TAKE AWAY THE MONEY REWARD. It's your only ethical choice. To do otherwise, is cheating yourself. Take your dollars to ARCA, ASALM, HPC, NHRA, IRL, SCCA or the local stock car track or drag strip or a parking lot autocross course in your town.   Anywhere that NASCAR and ISC can't get a piece of the action.  It's your money. It's your choice. Who do you want to see succeed while being a worthy shepherd of your money?

If you don't stop spending the money with NASCAR/ISC then you aren't really committed to the belief that NASCAR is too greedy and makes too much money. As if there was such a thing.

The other "shareholders"?  Don't worry about them. The teams and owners will go where the money and sponsorship is.  I haven't seen any of them get out of the series because they didn't like the way it was run.  I HAVE seen them shut down teams, even though they could afford to run it themselves, because of a lack of sponsorship. The vendors are even more money motivated than the promoter and the teams.  They'll follow you and your money.  And they don't care about the grumbling message boards, only the return on investment.

See, you're more powerful than you thought.   

Ren

Hey Ren, Could you EXPLAIN that for me ONE more time.............PLEASE lmao.

I'm only Joking, I got it the first time................or was it the second...............Dang it, I forgot what you said again. Sorry just trying to have a little fun here on the Frontstretch.