Let's go Road Racing!!!!!

[flamehothead]

Nice try, but you don't get to make up definitions now.

You said, "Where do you think ALL the Cup drivers got their Road Course Experiance?"

All means "each and every."

Experience means "the accumulation of knowledge or skill that results from direct participation in events or activities," despite your personal definition, which is apparently,"Participation in six or more events."

The fact is, not every NASCAR driver learned road course racing techniques while in Cup.

Your statement was incorrect if just one driver had road course experience before they drove in the Cup series.

Did you happen to read the post where I said I was WRONG, Guess NOT. I was WRONG or Incorrect as you put it but like I said I already made a post about me being WRONG so I don't know how many times you want me to say I was WRONG but that's 3 and I'm sure there will be more. I have this weird feeling that it makes you feel better when you get to tell someone they are WRONG and since I know a few people like that I know why ya do it. If you didn't like it then you would have seem where I had already admitted I was WRONG.

After you read it you will realize that you just wasted your time making the above post.

My point to YOU was, Since you said "I'm surprised you would say that" I figured that meant YOU knew what drivers in Nascar started out in Road Racing. YES, I said ALL, EVERY and even in CAPS NO LESS but I was WRONG.

SO again I will say I was WRONG in my earlier post. Oh and by the way if I want to make up my own definitions I will lol.

[HUDSON HORNET]

How many of you that are for  more road course races have ever been to a road course live?  How many could you see the complete track?  It's ok on TV when they have cameras all around the track, but to be there live, seems like all you'd see onlys when the cars were directly in front of you.  Some ovals on the NASCAR sceene are like that, on the lower (cheap) seats.  Help me out here, because I've never been to a road course race. 

I have!

I've attended quite a few road course races and played my cards right. Ergo, I could see the whole track. But there was a secret to being able to do that.

Sadly though, the track I make reference to no longer exists.
Riverside International Raceway in California. For years, that was the closest track to my home 20.

The secret was to leave for the race around midnight the night before and arrive around one AM --- and get in line outside the gate that Pigeon Pass Road led to. As more and more fans arrived, the line became so long that it went back out on the highway, creating unsafe driving conditions for the motorists.
Solution? Open the gate early --- usually around three AM. Once in, we made a bee-line for the Champion Spark Plugs bridge to the infield. From there we made our way to our personal favorite spot, which was around turn one and two. Then partied hearty until race time.
From there, and only a few feet from our vehicles, we could look right and see the race cars entering the esses. A little walking and we were AT the esses. A little more walking and we were around turns five and six, or even the back straight with a view of the sweeping last turn.

I've never been satisfied with grandstand seating. Tried it once at Riverside. Didn't like it. I have feet for a reason, and I'm curious by nature. With a little effort at Riverside, from the infield, and the whole track WAS viewable. I miss those days. Although R.I.R. would probably be considered primitave by today's standards, it was the RACING we went for. And the RACING was what we found.

What was R.I.R. is now homes and shopping centers.
Back in the day, the Wood brothers were the team to beat with Dan Gurney driving the number 121. Dan was the MAN at Riverside!

And I can still vividly remember the sound of those winged Mopars singing down the backstraight. Ahhhhh, sweet music.

[Earl]

Where do you think ALL the Cup drivers got their Road Course Experiance?

Most drivers started out in Sprint, Midget, Or Dirt Late Models and they don't turn right so EVERY Cup driver got their experiance during their Cup Career.

LOL dirt track drivers turn right more than left most of the time, especially in open wheel cars.

Hmmm..... dirt road course..... Pikes Peak!!!!  wouldn't that be fun to watch..... 

[Chris]

HH...
You are right...
Cousin Bill got his first career CUP win at RIR
Plans are in the works to build some big race complex out in Cali somewhere.  It'll have several race tracks all at one venue.
One will be a exact replica of the old RIR.
I was hoping CUP would go back out there and race and do away with one of the races at Fontana.

[Butterbean]

HH, so what you're saying is that you couldn't see the whole track from one spot?  You had to walk to just see a portion of the track?  Of course, there are ovals where ya can't see the whole track, even though I've read on message boards where folks have said...there isn't a bad seat in the house where ya couldn't see the whole track (and they were talking about Martinsville)...which is BS.

[HUDSON HORNET]

HH...
You are right...
Cousin Bill got his first career CUP win at RIR
Plans are in the works to build some big race complex out in Cali somewhere.  It'll have several race tracks all at one venue.
One will be a exact replica of the old RIR.
I was hoping CUP would go back out there and race and do away with one of the races at Fontana.

If I'm not mistaken, I think Ricky Rudd got his first win there also. MAN! Those were the days!

An "exact replica"?
Hmmmmmmm
One can only hope.
But they'd have to do alot of digging to accomplish that. From the infield, we were elevated to most of the track and could hit the race track with a thrown rock. Yup! That close!

Even if they do manage to recreate the track I doubt the atmosphere would be the same. It was waayyy laid back a R.I.R., with just a four foot chain link fence holding the fans back where we prefered to view. I remember one time when a Pontiac spun coming out of turn two and went into the dirt berm. I was photographing the happenings and got several shots as the spin progressed. When the car finally came to a stop, I realized what I was watching through the viewfinder was ALOT closer to me than it looked. I was even showered with dirt and dust from the impact. Seems in the fan's excitement around me, we just happened to knock the fence down and were out on that berm a tad too far. If I had made a mighty jump, I'd have landed on the roof of that Pontiac. I doubt NASCAR will EVER let THAT happen again.

During our pre-race parties, we were allowed to have open camp-fires on the ground. Mostly to keep warm. But if we played our cards right, we brought another kind of body warmer. But back in the day, there weren't too many females who were interested in NASCAR or any kind of racing for that matter. Which COULD work in our favor, if we could just GET them to attend.

Riverside International Raceway, back in the 1960's through 1970's was a race fan's dream track. And we knew where the racers were staying in the motels and hotels and where they ate their off-track meals. Met MANY drivers during that time. But we were just tongue-tied kids back then and had nothing really intelligent to say.

I remember once, just coming off the Champion Spark Plug Bridge onto the infield, my friend, who was driving a 1959 Plymouth "L" head 6, yelled, "HEY! YOU WANNA RACE?" at a man standing there waiting to cross in front of the bridge.
"OH MY GAWD!" he said afterwards. "That was A.J. Foyt!"
And it WAS.

We tracked him down after we parked and found him at a consession stand. My friend appologized. A.J. said somethin' like, "Good thing kid, I was about to go get my race car." Then he bought us both a soda.
As he left carrying his purchase, he asked us who we wanted to win the race.
YOU! we both answered.
But I lied.
I was a Dan Gurney --- Wood Brothers fan. And Dan won, as I recall. But then, when DIDN'T Dan win? 

Looking back on it all now, I can see where we made our biggest mistake.
Yup!
What we SHOULD have done is, ask A.J. if he wanted some help carrying those burgers and drinks back into the pits. Had we done that and had he accepted, I MIGHT have cheered for HIM to win. You know, from his PIT area.

They might be able to take our tracks away, Chris. But Man-O-Man, they CAN'T take our memories.
That's what time does. But it'll be a LONG time.

[HUDSON HORNET]

HH, so what you're saying is that you couldn't see the whole track from one spot?  You had to walk to just see a portion of the track?

Yes sir. That's correct. But to better understand, you have to realize that the actual track was dug into the ground with the resulting rises being vantage points. Where the stands were placed gave a good view of some of the turns where alot of passing action happened, but there was no one place where the entire track could be seen.

But from the infield, with a little walking you had your choice. For example, from our personal favorite spot with a PERFECT view of turns one and two, and right next to the tunnel to the outfield, if we turned 180 degrees and walked across the infield, we were at the back stretch. If we looked right, we could see them setting up and going into the esses. If we turned 90 degrees and walked an even shorter distance, we were AT the esses. A tad farther, and we were at the turn with the grandstands on the outfield, but we were on the INside --- looking out. From there, we could follow the track through the remaining turns and walk parallel with the backstretch. Turn 180 degrees from there and we were back where we started.

From where we parked at turns 1 & 2, we were only a few feet from our parked cars, usually full of beer, and a stones throw, literally, from the action on the track. We could actually rest out arms and elbows on the TOP of the chain-link fence separating the viewing area from the track. We were elevated and there was a dirt berm, but the actual distance was about 30, maybe 40 feet to the inner edge of the track. If you're familiar with 35mm cameras, imagine this --- if you were using ANYthing stronger than an 85mm telephoto lens, you were looking at the driver's eyeballs. A "normal" lens, 50mm got the job done just fine. Even a 35mm or 28mm wide angle lens was fine. THAT close!
Other vantage points weren't as close, but by today's standards, waayyy closer than we're allowed to be without press passes.


 Of course, there are ovals where ya can't see the whole track, even though I've read on message boards where folks have said...there isn't a bad seat in the house where ya couldn't see the whole track (and they were talking about Martinsville)...which is BS.

ButterBean, it's hard to describe. The track had elevation changes. If you looked across the infield, sometimes you couldn't see the track at all because in was recessed. But that gave us an outstanding vantage point from where we were allowd to view it from. When we were at turns 1 & 2 though, we could HEAR the backstretch. And in the opening laps and after yellow flags, when the cars were bunched up, we could hear them all the way around the track. It was so cool. Just by the sounds, we knew where they were.

But to be precise, no, we couldn't actually SEE the entire track from only one vantage point. But unless a fan is in a luxury box or in the nose bleed seats at California, we cant' see the entire track from there either. And in order to do so, we need binoculars. Binoculars were one thing we NEVER needed to bring to Riverside. At least not to watch the race. Girl watching, now THAT'S anyother story. Remember Linda Vaughn? Miss Hurst Shifter?
Oooo-La-La!!
But we could get CLOSE to HER, too. Back in the day.

                         

[Earl]

I've had seats at Pocono where yu could se the whole track.

Up in the box, air condition, catered in food, garage passes for an entire weekend... the only way to see a race.

[HUDSON HORNET]

I've had seats at Pocono where yu could se the whole track.

Up in the box, air condition, catered in food, garage passes for an entire weekend... the only way to see a race.

That might be the "only way" to see a race, Earl.
But I'm thinking the BEST way to see a race .......
is from directly behind the windshield. 
Of course, that's just my opinion.     

Keeping in mind that if it wasn't for nothing,
I wouldn't know anything.     

[FS Ren]

That might be the "only way" to see a race, Earl.
But I'm thinking the BEST way to see a race .......
is from directly behind the windshield. 
Of course, that's just my opinion.     

Keeping in mind that if it wasn't for nothing,
I wouldn't know anything.     

I've had seats at Daytona in Petty Tower where you could see the entire track. It was great. One of the former Editor's dad had season tickets there and got Butch and me a seat there.  That's one seat each, I didn't have to sit on his lap or anything.  (Hey, that's a ticket gray area that might be worth trying next time.  Half price tickets, here I come!)

I've also had seats for Daytona behind the windshield. The view wasn't as good, but by golly, that Barney Hall rocks!

Ren

[HUDSON HORNET]

I've had seats at Daytona in Petty Tower where you could see the entire track. It was great. One of the former Editor's dad had season tickets there and got Butch and me a seat there.  That's one seat each, I didn't have to sit on his lap or anything.  (Hey, that's a ticket gray area that might be worth trying next time.  Half price tickets, here I come!)

I've also had seats for Daytona behind the windshield. The view wasn't as good, but by golly, that Barney Hall rocks!

Ren

Hmmmmmmmm

Would y'all ever consider a three-way split?

                         

In the Petty Tower, Ren, ---- not behind the windshield.     

[FS Ren]

Heck man, I don't think there's any rules that you can't!  In cases like this I like to ask WWCD. What would Chad do?

Ren

[Earl]

But I'm thinking the BEST way to see a race .......
is from directly behind the windshield. 

Doctor says I can't do that anymore.... LOL causes to many problems with vertigo