The Emperor Has no Clothes...................................

[dawg]

In The well known fairy tale. Everyone was afraid to mention this evident fact.
As regards the COC(car of crap.) EVERYONE, has mentioned it. Every ink stained wretch, who feeds off the sport. Thus having a vested interest in seeing it keep it's popularity. Has been shouting it from the roof tops.
 The fans, (looked on by the Emperors, from Daytona. As the Cash Cows) Have been lighting up the Msg. boards, & fan forums.
 Still the Emperors stands proudly beside the COC. Declaring it to be a rousing success. About the only thing rousing is the CC's. Trying to wake up for the last 50 laps, or so.
 Some of the knaves figured it out. With the rear yaw thing.  The jokers, who couldn't, or wouldn't drive them that way cried, & cried. The Emperors, after saying that they wouldn't interfere. Interfered, part of the reason given, was that the cars didn't look good crabbing down the straights. HELLOOO! I know no proud parents want to admit that their baby is ugly, but open your eyes, guys. They decreed that as the COC handles like crap. All of the COC's must handle like crap.
 The jokers say "the COC's won't turn, & won't slow down"... I can't wait to see these puppies on a road course!
 Speaking for this CC. Watching a COC race is like eating a BLT, with Turkey bacon & hot house tomatoes. It just leaves me longing for the real thing.

[CodeBlueEMT]

 The COC does hold up well in a crash when placed in the hands of inexperienced rookies.

 I've found it best to utilize the mute button on my remote while the media tries to convince me of the COC's success.   

 NASCAR pretty much got their last dime from me years ago.

 Nice post Dawg.

 Shayne

 

[HUDSON HORNET]

Uhhhhh, ........ Dawg ---------

The Emperor HAS clothes.

It's The Emperor WEARS no clothes. 

But he THOUGHT he was. 

I reckon that book is a good lesson in salesmanship
and buyer beware. 

[Chris]

I dare to disagree...
I think the Cot is MUCH better than the cars we had previously.
These cars take some TALENT to actually drive...  the old cars were 90 percent mechanical and 10% driver.
At least now it is about 50 / 50.

Also these cars DID do what they were designed to do... they were intended to help with safety and inprove competition.
Competition is better... and as far as safety... there is no doubt that is FAR better

Besides I rather see less passing and fewer yellows... and be able to see a crash like McDowell had in qualifying,.. and him WALK AWAY.  Just last year in the old car he could of easily been killed.  His crash was as bad as Dale Sr's and he's not here any more.  SO as far as the Cot.  I applaud what it has brought to racing, and commend NASCAR for their efforts

[CodeBlueEMT]

 I think McDowell survived because of three things:

 1. The COT

 2. The safer barrier.

 3. His age.

 Shayne

[dawg]

Uhhhhh, ........ Dawg ---------

The Emperor HAS clothes.

It's The Emperor WEARS no clothes. 

But he THOUGHT he was. 

I reckon that book is a good lesson in salesmanship
and buyer beware. 


Uhhhh....H H------- Shouldn't that be F H H, or you just modest?

Anyway you made the connection so I couldn't have been that far off.

Actually, one would have to assume that being the Emperor. He had a great many clothes. Probably back at the castle, in the royal closet. But I try not to get bogged down in minutiae.

You've reminded me of the old joke. The punch line of which is..... It's Salesmanship. But I digress.

[CodeBlueEMT]

 Chris, there's always F1 if you like the less passing/fewer caution thing.

 I think (I hope anyhow) NASCAR will make the necessary changes to make these cars race better.

 Shayne

[dawg]

I dare to disagree...
I think the Cot is MUCH better than the cars we had previously.
These cars take some TALENT to actually drive...  the old cars were 90 percent mechanical and 10% driver.
At least now it is about 50 / 50.

Also these cars DID do what they were designed to do... they were intended to help with safety and inprove competition.
Competition is better... and as far as safety... there is no doubt that is FAR better

Besides I rather see less passing and fewer yellows... and be able to see a crash like McDowell had in qualifying,.. and him WALK AWAY.  Just last year in the old car he could of easily been killed.  His crash was as bad as Dale Sr's and he's not here any more.  SO as far as the Cot.  I applaud what it has brought to racing, and commend NASCAR for their efforts

Chris,

 If everyone agreed with me.....Well that's so scary, that I don't want to even think about it.

"The old cars were 90% mechanical 10% driver. Now the're at least 50-50." You make that as a stated fact. Just curious how you arrived it that?

 The part I CAN agree with you on is the safety issue. There is no doubt that these cars are MUCH safer than the old cars. That plus the Safer Barriers(which we can thank IMS, & Tony George for) have been a big step forward.
 IMHO, the cars can be tweaked, To Look better, & more importantly. To race MUCH better. W/O compromiseing the safety of the drivers.

[Tyyrus]

Chris, there's always F1 if you like the less passing/fewer caution thing.

 I think (I hope anyhow) NASCAR will make the necessary changes to make these cars race better.

 Shayne

Patience Grass Hopper ! As Chris has stated the purpose of the Car Design Change was to impart Safety and Consistency within Car Design . We all knew that many Teams had a much better technology advantage over some of the lesser teams. Parity normally brings better competition . So far I have seen a vast improvement
in less cautions and better racing ! Even look at the number of lead changes that have occurred due to aero package that the Car of today provides with it neutral balance (aero package) Yes they are still work in progress
but all success within change does  ! I still remember people complaining when they went from the boxy 1970's version to the more streamlined cars of the 80's . As far as Dale Sr's crash , it was nothing it was a lateral side impact which is even worse than head on where crush panels can absorb more energy . Much of the force was transferred into the cockpit and Dale himself , since there was little or no crush zone within the side panels . Yep Neck Restraints , soft walls also have made any impact less . Further yep Dale was in his 50th yr. no spring chicken , but like Mark Martin in rather good overall physical condition . So anyhow......lets Race !!!   

[Chris]

"The old cars were 90% mechanical 10% driver. Now the're at least 50-50." You make that as a stated fact. Just curious how you arrived it that?

 The part I CAN agree with you on is the safety issue. There is no doubt that these cars are MUCH safer than the old cars. That plus the Safer Barriers(which we can thank IMS, & Tony George for) have been a big step forward.
 IMHO, the cars can be tweaked, To Look better, & more importantly. To race MUCH better. W/O compromiseing the safety of the drivers.

The percentages I got... from a couple different ways.  One is my own person knowledge from working on the NASCAR vehicles, and knowing how they work, and knowing how aero works on one verses the other... the other is listening to how several different announcers, reporters, crew chiefs, etc have all said thats about how the numbers work out with the old car vs the new cars.  It takes more talent to drive the new car, and not so much what your team can do at the show technology-wise.

As far as changing the 'look' of the cars.... IMO I doubt we'll see much change in the look.  And I'm curious about what you would want changed.
YOu gotta consider the CoT "works" BECAUSE of the way it looks.  The square boxy nose, the splitter,  the taller, wider drivers compartment,.. the wing on the rear seems to help catch the car and help keep it from spinning out.
Change any ONE thing on the car and you COMPLETELY change the effects on how the car works

[Chris]

I think McDowell survived because of three things:

 1. The COT

 2. The safer barrier.

 3. His age.

hhuummmm
Cot.. yeah I can agree with that... safer barrier I can agree with that also... throw in HANS devide and improved drivers seats...
Age,.. I'm not so sure that age had anything to do with it...... 

[dawg]

Chris,

 We may have to agree, to disagree on this one.

 I'll speak to what I KNOW. Sprints, & Midgets, on dirt. Wing, vs non wing. A wing car, with the big wing to lean on. Drives more like a pavement car, is not as sensitive to set up, & is In my experience, easier to drive, especially when the car is less than perfect.

 Speaking from what I'm SEEING, The new car with it's wing would seem to be easier to save, because I'm seeing saves that would have been impossible with the old car.
 It's also being bounced off the wall hard enough to have sent the old car straight to the garage. With little effect on it. doesnt seem to slow it down a bit. I would think that being able to save cars that you would have lost before. Trying repeatedly to knock the wall down, with only cosmetic damage. Would make it look like the car might be easier to drive. But that's just me.
 The older a driver is, the longer he's been doing this. The more likely he is to be used to a certain feel. Some will adapt sooner than others, some may never become comfortable, with a totally new feel. Doesnt necessarily mean the car is harder to drive, just that some people don't adapt as quickly.

[Busch Babe 899]

The look has grown on me. I mean, hey when they went from the boxy little Nissan Sentra I was driving to the newer, rounder version, I HATED it...always liked a boxy vehicle. Probably why I love my pick-up. 

And I agree, the racing IS better....because it relys more now on the drivers. Sure, the teams still play a big part in getting it set up so it's close to what the driver knows how to drive, but the drivers that adapt quickest (Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards) are the ones that excelling. The rest will catch up, just watch.

And we HAVE had a lot more lead changes this season, even if it usually is just between a few cars...there's been a DRASTIC cut-down on the "follow the leader" racing we've come to accept in recent years, ESPECIALLY at the restrictor plate tracks...watching 2 cars team up and zoom by a long line of cars inside them to the lead in a lap or 2 was AMAZING.

So, change is hard, but IMO I would think the people who have been yelling for a "return to the OLD days" would be happier now...we have, from what I have seen watching old races on TV, returned to that level of competition...WITHOUT the disparity that had the leader winning by laps...closer racing. I'm happy.

Are there still boring races, and boring gaps in races? Sure. But they were always there....and with tweaking, I think we can see AWESOME racing again, even better than what we have now, as the drivers and CC's adapt and figure out new things to apply.

And NASCAR needs to BACK OFF on the fines for ingenuity, before they smush all the ingenuity out of the teams, and we have single-file, boring racing for REAL, because all the cars are EXACTLY the same (IROC, anyone???)

And imagine how IRATE Dale Sr would be driving these cars, if he tried to "rattle someone's cage" and that someone...SAVED it from going around....HMMMM....just thinking about it makes me chuckle...

[Chris]

Hey Dawg.. we can both have differing opinions ... thats great...
Thats part of what makes this forum so great... everyone gets to say their piece, and no one gets upset about it.
I see you point in some aspects,. in a few areas I don't.
I speak of what I KNOW also.. and what I research.  Having crewed on a NASCAR pit crew for a couple years.. you learn quite a bit.
I do agree with you this car seems to be easier to save.  The TV announcers point it out all the time,.. and I have to agree, it does seem to go back to the wing.  Common sense says the wing keep the rear planted on the track, and helps to slow the car quicker,.. and the tabs on the side of the wing catch air and help to try to point the car to get it going straight again.  SO when you try to slide sideways the side wings are working in your favor.
Now I do think the heights of the cars helps in that someone also.  No one has brought that up... but with the greenhouse being 4" taller,.. the side of the car would seem to do the same thing.  But I thing the wing would be the major factor as it mainly influences the rear end.

As far as the car and it being 'indestructable'.... IMO that has to do almost entirely to the energy absorbing material now applied between the rollbars and the body skin.  Originally put there to protect the driver from side inpact crashes.... it has now been found to hold the contour of the body and keep from pressing in the body when the driver rubs the wall.
Previously problems occured when the driver would hit an outside wall and allow the body to crush in IN FRONT of the rear tire allowing the metal to collapse in at the area of the rear tire and rub that tire making it go flat.
Now that area holds its form, and hence... no damage.
The area behind the rear wheels seems to collapse just like before,.. but that won't make a tire cut down... and that can be repaired next pit stop.

[Tyyrus]

(Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards) are the ones that excelling. The rest will catch up, just watch.


Good Post Girly , just wanted to add that Ole Marky appears to have adapted rather well to the new Car and Team even though he has missed 3 Races already ! Qualified 3rd for tomorrows Race...Yeehaw ! Go Get  Em You Silly Old Man !!