BGN 8 vs 60

[Chris]

hhuummmm

[sweetwahine]

Tommorrow is another day oh Fiddle Dee Dee.....To be contiuned or not?

[racin_girl72]

I don't know that I've heard boos for Jr drown out the cheers.

Whether or not Jr hit him on purpose or Carl just got a bit loose and checked up (I'm leaning towards #2 and I'm not a real Jr fan so that's not hwy) he shouldn't have come back out on the track to hit him.  That's just like what he did to Stewart at Pocono.  Carl needs to learn to be more subtle with his payback.

[SMOKEN14]

HILLBILLY CARL is an idiot nascar should sit his butt down for a couple of races. he could of seriously injured jrs hand. that moron needs anger management classes. IM glad tony put his dumb butt out of the chase 

[Chris]

aawww come on Smoken.... tell us how you really feel... ROFLOL

[Chris]

I've been sitting and 'studyin' on how I feel about how all that played out ever since I first posted the new thread.
Not sure I got my head wrapped around all of it yet... and it's been a couple hours.

I KNOW I didn't like that Carl come and hit Jr back out on the track... not so much because he HIT him,... heck we see drivers do that ALL the time,.. but because Jr's hand was out the window, and he could have injured him
Well it wasn't really "out" the window,.. he just had the edge of it laying on the window edge.

From the OTHER point of view, I'm sure Carl didn't see Jr's hand laying on the side of the opening.  It wasn't like he had his window net down and his arm was hanging out.
SO in a way I can excuse Carl for that.  No way he would have been thinking about jr's hand, and all that.  he was just thinking,.. "That guy wrecked me and cost me the race"

NOW as far as what I saw on the replay... The way I saw it Edwards NEVER got ANY sideways until the first time Jr got into him,.. the he hit him the second time and turned him the rest of the way around.  The two hits were just a few seconds apart.

Can't really blame Jr either,.. it was just good hard racing...  maybe a little over aggressive driving.

WHERE I DO lay blame is on NASCAR...
They go out in the drivers meetings and say "if there is any rough driving, overaggressiveness, etc... you will be blackflagged".  SO since it was on the last lap seems to me Jr should have been given the black flag,... placed at the end of the lead lap, and someone else given the win.
IF THEY DON'T do what they say,.. when they let stuff like this go,.. they are just saying "go ahead guys,.. do anything you want,.. it's OK with us" (we'll just pick and choose WHO we want to penalize)

I just feel it is again a problem of Nascar's consistent INconsistency

I agree with Cami... LOTS of boo's.. Jr's "most popular" status ranking is slipping badly.
Wonder if Bill Elliott came back to racing full time if he would win it again??
I know Earnhardt Sr. NEVER would have won it if Elliott hadn't withdrawn his name from the ballott.

[racin_girl72]

WHERE I DO lay blame is on NASCAR...
They go out in the drivers meetings and say "if there is any rough driving, overaggressiveness, etc... you will be blackflagged".  SO since it was on the last lap seems to me Jr should have been given the black flag,... placed at the end of the lead lap, and someone else given the win.
IF THEY DON'T do what they say,.. when they let stuff like this go,.. they are just saying "go ahead guys,.. do anything you want,.. it's OK with us" (we'll just pick and choose WHO we want to penalize)

I just feel it is again a problem of Nascar's consistent INconsistency

I agree with you there Chris.  Edwards even mentioned after the race the speech he got from NASCAR about roughdriving etc from what happened at Pocono and they weren't going to put up with it.  So if that's the case and Carl wants Jr. black flagged, then Carl should be black flagged too for hitting up under the yellow.

[Chris]

Edwards even mentioned after the race the speech he got from NASCAR about roughdriving etc from what happened at Pocono and they weren't going to put up with it.  So if that's the case and Carl wants Jr. black flagged, then Carl should be black flagged too for hitting up under the yellow.

I'm sure nothing will happen to Jr,.. and carl will get a fine and a points penalty...
After all carl's not one of "the chosen Ones"

[SMOKEN14]

I'm sure nothing will happen to Jr,.. and carl will get a fine and a points penalty...
After all carl's not one of "the chosen Ones"

  I would have to disagree with you on this one Carl is a Roush driver And we all know Nascar is in Cheating Jack Roush's pocket 

[Chris]

You know dude,...no offense, but it's a shame your hatred for some drivers and teams has you so blind you just can't see the facts when they are in front of your face...

I feel sorry for you,.. I know you miss a lot of the enjoyment of the sport by being so partial and having such a closed mind.

[Checkeredflag]

I'm not a fan of either driver, so I hope I can keep this very neutral.

1.  Junior's hand ...  should have been inside the car.  And, if it wasn't, maybe his spotter could have mentioned that there was a very large object hurtling towards his door .. is he buckled up and does he have his hands on the wheel.   Seriously, though, thank goodness no one got injured.  Carl was wrong, but you see that happen all the time, and Junior should have had some awareness of where the car he just wrecked was.

2.  Edwards is running for the Busch championship.  Like it or not, there are 7 guys doing the double.  Had Carl won, or even finished 3rd or 4th, he would have made some headway into Kevin Harvick's lead, because Harvick was having a crappy day and running 8th.  Instead, Kevin now has a basically insurmountable lead - probably a 100 point swing in that last lap.  Did Carl have a realistic chance of catching him?  Nope, but it might have made the last couple of races mean something towards the championship.  On the other hand, Junior was flat out Buschwhacking - running for the win and nothing else.  That's all he saw - the trophy - because points are meaningless to him.  To be honest, those are the only Buschwhackers who annoy me - when there are no points - driver or owner - on the line, they tend to get a little reckless. It played out great at Watkins Glen, with Robby Gordon and Kurt Busch, because it didn't matter to either of them.  It didn't work out too well here.

3.  Sometimes these guys crack me up...a quote from Junior....Earnhardt Jr. said he did not intend to wreck Edwards, only give him "a little push."  "He just climbed up on the nose and it just spun him right out," he said.   OK, Junior...how did Carl climb up on the nose of your racecar?  Did he put his car in reverse or something? 

(quote was from here..http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/15314669.htm)

They're both fine, even if they're a bit miffed at each other.  They'll get over it.  But, when you consider that Junior is on the bubble to make the Chase, and, at least according to Carl, Junior's drafting partner took him out of contention at Pocono, and with Bristol and Richmond left on the schedule, this may not be over. 

I just wonder if Junior won the battle, but it might end up costing him the war this year?

[Chris]

Good comments CF...
And I had thought the same things on a couple points.
We got a couple REALLY good "paybacks" brewing here...
The 99 vs 20,.. now the 99 vs 8,.. and the 17 vs 24.

Like you said... some of the guys who may NOT make the chase may get their 'pound of flesh' BEFORE the chase cutoff just to keep someone from getting INTO the chase.

Someone who is ALREADY IN the chase,.. like the 17 vs 24 deal... that may simmer a while... if the 17 waits and gets his payback and cost the 24 the CHAMPIONSHIP... that could be justice in his eyes.
Maybe he who laughs last,.. laughs best.

[paulfan]

One thing that's been loitering in the back of my mind since Dale Sr's accident is the conflict of interest between a driver that is a team owner for a competing car.  Harvick has had this situation every race in the Busch series.  To tell you the truth, in the closing laps of the race I could see Jr blocking for Robby and wrecking.  History has a strange way of repeating itself.

[NascarOkie]

As for bushwhacking, I don't hold a Cup driver running full time for the Busch Championship in any higher regard than I do a Cup driver "running for the win and nothing else." 

A lot of the drivers ride with their hand out the window to cool off.  I can't see turning this around where if Carl HAD injured Jr's hand it would have been somehow Jr's fault for having it resting outside the window.  They were not at full speed, they were following the pace car, weren't they?  Same as Checkered Flag, I don't understand why Jr's spotter didn't warn him Carl was coming but since he didn't..... anyhow,  it's not like one would expect something like that from someone infamous for quotes such as "OhgollygeezegoshdarnIdidn'tmeantohithimitwasjustoneofthoseracingd eals" Carl Edwards...oh wait, Carl Edwards?  That's twice now isn't it?  First with Tony and now.... Men!  I just think that was stupid on Carl's part.  I still like him though.  It's just that I like Jr better!!!  LOL!

Another quote from Jr in the same article mentioned above
(quote was from here..http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/15314669.htm)

"I don't go around wrecking people on purpose and I don't have a track record of doing that." 

To quote Chris from his first post in this thread (while he was still "wrapping his head around" the events, lol, he stated: "Can't really blame Jr either,.. it was just good hard racing...  maybe a little over aggressive driving." <-------I agree

[Busch Babe 899]

I'm not a fan of either driver, so I hope I can keep this very neutral.

1.  Junior's hand ...  should have been inside the car.  And, if it wasn't, maybe his spotter could have mentioned that there was a very large object hurtling towards his door .. is he buckled up and does he have his hands on the wheel.   Seriously, though, thank goodness no one got injured.  Carl was wrong, but you see that happen all the time, and Junior should have had some awareness of where the car he just wrecked was.

2.  Edwards is running for the Busch championship.  Like it or not, there are 7 guys doing the double.  Had Carl won, or even finished 3rd or 4th, he would have made some headway into Kevin Harvick's lead, because Harvick was having a crappy day and running 8th.  Instead, Kevin now has a basically insurmountable lead - probably a 100 point swing in that last lap.  Did Carl have a realistic chance of catching him?  Nope, but it might have made the last couple of races mean something towards the championship.  On the other hand, Junior was flat out Buschwhacking - running for the win and nothing else.  That's all he saw - the trophy - because points are meaningless to him.  To be honest, those are the only Buschwhackers who annoy me - when there are no points - driver or owner - on the line, they tend to get a little reckless. It played out great at Watkins Glen, with Robby Gordon and Kurt Busch, because it didn't matter to either of them.  It didn't work out too well here.

3.  Sometimes these guys crack me up...a quote from Junior....Earnhardt Jr. said he did not intend to wreck Edwards, only give him "a little push."  "He just climbed up on the nose and it just spun him right out," he said.   OK, Junior...how did Carl climb up on the nose of your racecar?  Did he put his car in reverse or something? 

(quote was from here..http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/15314669.htm)

They're both fine, even if they're a bit miffed at each other.  They'll get over it.  But, when you consider that Junior is on the bubble to make the Chase, and, at least according to Carl, Junior's drafting partner took him out of contention at Pocono, and with Bristol and Richmond left on the schedule, this may not be over. 

I just wonder if Junior won the battle, but it might end up costing him the war this year?

I think you pegged it CF...Jr, whether intentionally or not, just wrecked the leader of the race...where the heck was his spotter, who MIGHT just have earned his bucks with a warning to JR that Carl was coming...I mean, come on....DOH!!!

Carl will get penalized...and as he gains more 'sperience, he'll realize that such actions achieve no purpose other than to give him momentary satisfaction...and in the long run he's the one that ends up penallized...

It still surprises me that people are surprised that Carl has a temper...he's very even tempered, but when you finally tap that temper...

But, did you see the ESPN coverage of Carl talking to Jr in Victory Lane...sure looked to me like he was apologizing for something, but also voicing his displeasure...put his hand on Jr's shoulder like "I'm sorry man..." then went on to start to walk away, and turned back, like he was saying "What where you thinking!!" while bystanders held on to him, obviously worried he would physically attack Jr....Not Carl's style, but they obviously were being cautious...Jr appeared to have a smile on his face, but it was hard to tell for sure at the angle the camera was at.

Well, anyway, another day, another wrecked car...and penalties to come. But Carl's out of the Championship for Busch, and out of the Chase...now he can just focus on winning races.

I hadn't heard that quote from Jr, CF, about Carl climbing up on the hood...but whatever, what I saw was Jr driving right through Carl, not really caring if Carl wrecked or not...he saw Carl wiggle, knew he was loose, COULD have backed off a bit, likely WOULD have if it weren't the final laps...but he didn't. HE kept the accelerator down, and didn't worry if Carl wrecked, if Carl took out Robby, in Jr's car, in the wreck, and if you watch the replays, Carl's car came perilously close to rolling as it spun out, 2 wheels off the ground as it skidded sideways at one point.

Aggressive driving at it's worse, and once again, NASCAR ignores a blatant example of what they tell the drivers and fans they will penalize for.

You'd think a kid who lost his father a mere 5 years ago in a wreck on a large track like MIS would show a bit more restraint. They were going 180mph...when Carl hit him under the yellow, they were doing, what, 55mph??? Jr's hand aside, which shouldn't have been out the window, and wouldn't have, had Jr's spotter been on his toes, there was minimal risk of injury there.

Once again, I find myself finished watching a race where I'm just thankful Carl, or anyone else, wasn't injured. Someday, that might not be the story...because people are forgetting the lessons learned as recently as 5 years ago, becoming complacent.

JMO, of course.