How to lose fans and influence alienation

[smyler]

If I was NASCAR and wanted to lose fans, I'd force race leaders to go back in the pack if they were unknowns... because they are unknowns.  I'd send the pace care in front of the leaders and force them to wreck and not let them go back to their pre-caution positions, that way the marque names could have a better chance of winning.  I'd think that the fans only want their favorite drivers to win and not realize that a lot of the fans actually want the best drivers/cars to win/lead.  As it turns out, that is exactly what happened Saturday night in Indianapolis at the Nationwide race.  The 99 and the 66 were forced back under the above circumstances.  What was a good story ended up being business as usual for the powers that be.  Am I the only one who was unhappy with what happened?  I have nothing against the 33, Hornaday, but it was crazy to put him at the front of the race.   GRRRRR.

[DougS]

I was just about to start a thread about how the NNS is the most RIGGED series in all of NASCAR. Tonight was absolutely absurd. If I was Arrons I would take every dollar out of nationwide effective immediately. If your the race leader and you get spun out WHILE FOLLOWING THE RULES of not passing the pace car, and you get put to 11th and the moron who spun you gets put to 6th, WTF OVER? Everyone in that booth couldn't say a word because it invovled Rustys son. I'll be writing an e-mail to ESPN after Phil posts his article on Tuesday. I hope I get my fan council e-mail from NASCAR on monday I  have an earfull for the Nationwide series.

I know the in drivers meeting / safety meeting they tell all the support vehicles not to move until race control tells you to move. So whose the idot in the tower who released the pace car with the leaders heading into turn 1 as the caution light comes on.

Too bad a great short track race has to be overshadowed by the NNS director rigging a race, again. I feel this is the second rigged race this season. The first one was when Gregg Biffle won Rousch's 100th win. A cuation should have been throw and in any other race it would have been thrown but it would have bunched up the field and possibly someone else might have win and the NNS and ESPN couldn't have that after hyping it for 2 and half hours.

[DougS]

Fans ought to be calling for the immediate resignation of series director Joe Balash over the conduct of the race tonight. Still sick to my stomach over the injustice performed tonight.

[20forLogano]

I was at a ball game with my wife and kids.  I have read much about this but what happened?

[Chris]

Fans ought to be calling for the immediate resignation of series director Joe Balash over the conduct of the race tonight. Still sick to my stomach over the injustice performed tonight.

I agree with some points, and disagree with others...
First, having worked as a pit crewman, and attended drivers meeting in the Truck series, I can see NASCAR's side of it.
The "standing" rule is that if you can't keep up with pace speed, (and or stop) then you fall back into line where ever you get going again.
I also agree the pace car looks to have came out on it's own and could be PARTLY to blame.

HOWEVER we have all saw before at very high speed race tracks (Daytona / Dega for example) the pace car will pull out and the field is going WAY to fast to slow down before the race cars go by them.  The INSTRUCTIONS from NASCAR is to slow down safely, and let the pace car catch and pass the leader.
Clearly IMO last night was more of a rookie mistake than anything.  If the leader should of just slowed down "normally" and not JAMMED on the breaks so he didn't pass the pace car,.. then the pace car would of caught up and passed him by turn #3, and no harm anywhere.

The announcers didn't say anything about Steven, IMO because they wasn't anything to say.  The leader slowed more suddenly than would he reasonably would be expected and Wallace had no where to go.  As the announcers kept saying "Wallace was just coasting".  Thats what the LEADER should of been doing until the line up sorted out and the pace car passed.
Now I will agree that if they put the leader back in 11th, then Wallace should of been BEHIND him...   I don't have it recorded any more, but it's "possible" that with Wallace pointing forward, and the leader pointing across the track, Wallace got by him and got rolling a bit before the leader did.  If that is the case,.. then Wallace got moving first, while the Leader would of still been trying to get turned around and in line.  If thats the case I can see the reason for NASCAR lining them up that way.

IN any situation it was unfortunate.  As well as BOTH ran afterwards,.. I'd of liked to see them run up front with the leaders.  The young guys battling with the veterans is ALWAYS great action

[falcon325]

Another race, another NA$CAR officiating fiasco.

If I were a sponsor of either of those lead cars, I would be livid.  I hate to see the little teams hurt, but maybe that's what it will take.

[Chris]

Another race, another NA$CAR officiating fiasco.

If I were a sponsor of either of those lead cars, I would be livid.  I hate to see the little teams hurt, but maybe that's what it will take.

I honestly don't see where any "officiating fiasco" took place.
Now I'm not a big fan of MUCH of what NASCAR does,.. but I'm not going to go trashing them when they do something RIGHT.
They have rules in place for just such an incident (like when a car stops or slows).  They followed their own rules to the letter.  No one really has ANY room to complain about what happened with the lineup.
Even if the pace car DID come out too soon (lets just say for arguments sake he DID come out on his own)... then IMO it's easy to see it was a rookie mistake.
Here you have a guy up leading thats never lead a NASCAR race before,.. the yellow comes on, and the pace car pops out.  His first thought to to NOT pass the pace car.  Sure that what the general rule is... but when you are almost PAST the pace car when it comes out, you are NOT just supposed to slam on your beaks and stop.  You pass the pace car, then slow down and let him back by you.
What if he was leading at Dega, and did something like that.  He'd have a 20 car pileup because he stopped and no one else would know that he was going to, or even why.
The more I consider it, the kid made his own mess.... it's too bad, but he did it to himself.
Just a rookie error

[S.D. Grady]

I admit to yelling at the TV last night...my gut reaction to the incident smacked of Robby Gordon's insanity a couple years ago in Montreal.  And then I thought and watched the replay...jamming the breaks on like that was a rookie response.  Wallace sliding into the back of Bayne?  racing deal.  Car coming out a tad early?  Smack the pace car driver upside the head.  NASCAR penalizing Bayne for a set of circumstances not his doing?  BOOOO!

I got PO'd at Montreal.  I couldn't stay quiet when Biffle "won" a race even though he did not "maintain speed".  And I'm none too happy with this call.

Still, Wallace, for what I feel the first time, really showed some stellar ability last night in the final laps.  And Bayne, for what its worth, made a decent showing after all.  As my husband said, with actually so few Cup drivers in the field--this was a great race for the newer and unknowns to audition for the big teams.  I think Trevor made great steps toward landing that big role...

The cameras stayed away from the Carl and Kyle show and remained focused on the boys who were battling it out.

Bad call.  Great Saturday night short track race.

[FS_Amy]

I think with Steven, it's more of a case of a mediocre driver in stellar equipment. 

I agree that the rule is stupid-if a guy can't keep up with the pace car because he gets spun through no fault of his own, that's different than not keeping up because his car is unable to-which is the reason for the rule.  NASCAR needs to figure out how to fix it.  It's one thing to be out trying to keep up while running around in a half- dead car spreading oil or debris all over the place in the process...getting turned by someone else is a different situation entirely and should be treated as such.

OTOH, NASCAR has had situations where the race winner hasn't kept pace car speed and has won anyway...sounds like yet another rule where NASCAR needs to actually fix the rules, rather than creative interpretation.

[20forLogano]

and then Nascar porks the 42 today.  The more and more I watch the more and more I want to stop watching.

[Tonyfan14]

NASCAR didn't screw up JPM's day. He did it himself. He was stupid enough to push it with a five second lead and just got busted. These drivers have a 5 mph buffer as it is.


People blaming NASCAR for every little thing is really getting old.  Anyother time a driver speeds no one is blaming NASCAR. Why is this different?

[DougS]

20forLogano here's a link for the video of what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33g2l0rqsM

[DougS]

and then Nascar porks the 42 today.  The more and more I watch the more and more I want to stop watching.

Juan porked Juan today not once but twice. There is no realistic manner to set that light and ensure it's perfect. NASCAR already allows a 5 MPH cushion and those that push the cushion are the ones that get nabbed. By the time that sensor pick ups the RPM's transmitts it to the light and the driver acknowledges the light with his foot it's already too late. If you set your light for 2 MPH into the cushion instead of 4 MPH maybe you have a chance. But the electronic timer is going to win over a moving car and reaction time every day all day.

[20forLogano]

20forLogano here's a link for the video of what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33g2l0rqsM

Thanks Doug for the link.

[20forLogano]

NASCAR didn't screw up JPM's day. He did it himself. He was stupid enough to push it with a five second lead and just got busted. These drivers have a 5 mph buffer as it is.


People blaming NASCAR for every little thing is really getting old.  Anyother time a driver speeds no one is blaming NASCAR. Why is this different?

which is exactly my point.  with a 5 second lead why would Juan push it?  He didn't and that is why he was so angry.  I would be willing to bet he made for damn sure he was under the limit with the car and lead he had.  This was a fixing plain and simple.