Hard to believe...

[cousinbilly]

Blu should not talk about Jeffie whining..look at you whining about Jeffie!

[Chris]

well.. not that he needs me to stick up for him.  I know he's capable of that all by himself.

BUT in Blu's defense...

Blu should not talk about Jeffie whining..look at you whining about Jeffie!

I think there's a BIG difference in someone pointing out someone or bringing up a discussion once... and Jeffy who seems to have a pattern of whining.  Crys about this, crys about that.  He can do no wrong in his opwn eyes,.. and everything EVERYBODY does seems to be a topic for him to whine about.

I laugh when he "asks" to have someone pull over so he can pass them.  You know it may be ONE thing for teammate to work together and do that.  That is to eachs benefit.
But to ask a competitor who you have no affiliation with just to 'let you by" for no other reason than "Hey, I'm Jeff Gordon"... I almost roll on the floor and wet myself.
It's just THAT stupid.
Jeff NEVER pulls over and lets anyone by,.. why should he logicly expect the same in return.
He said "just everyone drive me the way I drive them".... well when they do he complains and whines....

I guess the bottom line is this.. Jeff was a kid born with a silver spoon in his mouth... even so far as his parents uprooting THEIR lives and moving to Indiana so HE could race.
I guess old habits are hard to break.  He STILL acts like wants everything just given to him...

[Blu]

Thats quite all right Chris, that actually pretty well sums up my own thoughts. Plus I dont want CB to think Im whinning like his "Mr. Perfect"

 PS: CB ya dont see me "whinning"  about him after EVERY race do ya? I could. He usually... does

[Blu]

Hey Blu - now you can see exactly why J. Gordon's teammate is J. Johnson...   They both act/talk/behave/race/interview the same way...

Ya know RG...I have noticed that. Maybe it's  something in the Hendricks water supply?? Rick must drink a LOT of it too.

 They really are a lot alike, even in looks to a degree.Weird. Vickers proly wanted out of there for fear his assimilation is nearing completion.

[Blu]

I have to admit this sure ain't the world we grew up in.  If you are over 40, you probably had parents who disciplined you.  Nowadays, many people have no respect for others.  It's not universally true, of course.  Jeff has definitely changed over the past 5 years.  He used to care soooo much about his reputation as a nice guy, but now I can see what you guys are saying.  Honestly, I have noticed a change towards "me-ism" with him.  Maybe it was losing half of his stuff to Brooke that changed him.  Whatever it is, I think he is still primarily a good, talented racer and person, but he has allowed some selfishness and self importance to seep in to who he has become.

If one asks the question, if I were a billionaire and I was starting a team and could only choose three drivers, would Jeff be one of them... I know he'd be first on my list, Tony second and perhaps Jimmy or Greg third.  Talent, personality and the drive to win.  That's what it's all about in modern Cup racing. 

Smyler,
 First off let me thank you for your thoughts on this. I posted out of a need to vent and I do truly appreciate the  decent discussion.

 There is no middle of the road when it comes to JG IMO. Its seems its either Love him, and he can never do wrong, or.. hate (I prefer strong dislike of him) him ,and we almost look and wait for him to do somehting.
 I cannot deny the guy obviously has talent..he does. I just don't  like him (or I shoukd say ..his actions, and...attitude?) or really ANYONE like him I should say.
 My thoughts are how he is to me (and others as you see).

Somehting in your post really struck me though. You said "Jeff has definitely changed over the past 5 years" and it was almost a light bulb moment for me!

What happened 5 years ago?

Thats right.. Dale died.

Love him or hate him he was almost undoubtably the voice and face of NASCAR.
 An old school guy ,imperfect ,he  came from the school of the hardest knocks, rough as a cob, and man... even a hater would have to admit the man could do amazing things witha  race car, a guy you could see yourself going fishing or having a beer with.
And then ya had that little grin when hed do something questionable and youd almost have to chuckle a little yourself.

Ya see...he was me.
Or rather..what Id hoped to be. Imperfect and screwed up at times, but a good ol, small town boy made big time.

Jeff on the other hand seems to have had EVERYTHING handed to him, and seemed waaay to perfect for us "Sr" fans.

Getting back to my original thought here, but after Dale's death NASCAR was lost for abit IMO.

They desparately needed a face and voice.

 Gordon was a logical choice..young, cocky (arrogant was how many saw it), handsome (eye of the beholder I guess there LOL), and...a winner! Also with HMS backing him he would be pretty reliable too.

NASCAR really started pimping  Gordon ...5 years ago.
You could not seem to hear or see anything related to NASCAR without seeing  the 24 or Gordon on it.
Heck... I even saw an interview of Brian France a year ro two ago and BAM!! What do we see all over Brians office walls?? Thats right the 24 and Gordon.
Run good or bad, it seems they (TV) nearly always  keep an eye on the 24 and let us know how he's doing. That 24 and 48 car gets a LOT of air time and it doesnt seem to really matter where they are running too much IMO.

Somthing happening in NASCAR?? Lets ask JG!!
HMS, Evernham, Gordon,Dupont,the #24, the "rainbow warriors" all became near household names and were easily recognizable by even the youngest fan they were in our face and ears so much.

Then theres the seeming preferential treatment of him and HMS.
Rules were "gray areas" when it came to their mods.
On track Actons were overlooked when it came to them.
Cautions at opportune times for HMS cars.
Penalties ,when assesed seemed VERY light compared to other teams and drivers.

The list could go on...theres a lot IMO, and its really hard to pinpoint one single thing that makes us that dislike Gordon point to and say.. THAT'S why.

The big problem though IMO is that with all this "star" treatment from NASCAR, Gordon and HMS seem to have let it go to their heads. They really seem to think that they are special.
That they can ask and recieve on track favors.
Gordon seems to have the do as I say not as I do thing down pat.
He seemingly can drive as he wishes but thinks he is untouchable.
He often expects drivers to move over and not race him hard.
He seems to think he's  somewhat superior with favored driver status, and deserves it.
He feels he is NEVER wrong , and can do no wrong..because NASCAR by their actions (or inactions) tells him he cant.
He seems to really feel as though other drivers realy want and value his opinion of their drving as if its a valued commodity



In short...Jeff  bought into the hype and it shows by the "selfishness and self importance" attitude we see now as you say, but,........ NASCAR had both hands in creating this monster. IMO

Just my thoughts.
Blu

[Chris]

It's nice to see a CIVIL discussion between folks with differing ideas.
No name calling,.. no cliques,... no flaming,.. just good open honest discussion.
Thats what this board is supposed to be all about.

I think you raise very valid points Blu.  Some things I had never thought about.
I think if most would sit and open and honestly think about it,.. they'd have to agree.
Fan or not...

[smyler]

Blu, do you remember the penalties that Evernham got when he was JG's crew chief?  They are still the biggest in history, dollarwise.

One thing about Rick that always stuck in my craw was that he got the pardon from Clinton.  I remember, of course, that he had leukemia at the time, but wrong is still wrong, whether you are ill or not.

You need go no further than this year to see how huge HMS was penalized when Chad was caught at Daytona.  Just because JJ went on to win two races in Chad's absence doesn't mean that the penalty wasn't a still one.  It just meant that their team is deep in talent. 

In short, while they do seem to have breaks along the way, they do also get penalized just like everyone else.  JJ drives pretty constantly, but he does do some goofy things sometimes.  Face it, if NA$CAR just let them drive any which way and not monitor hard bumps, etc., it would be anarchy.  Most of the times things are fairly well self policed, I do believe.

You, yourself, said DE, Sr. was imperfect.  Isn't it ok for these guys to be imperfect too?  Yeah, I respected Sr., but you HAVE to admit there was a double standard with him and everyone else NA$CAR policed.  Nobody got away with near as much crap as Sr. did... and they never will again.  Actually, I wish everyone had more rope and less reigns today.  I think the racing would be much more exciting. 

All I ask if for balance from the higher ups and for respect where it is deserved.  Winning 77 races should  bring with it at least a bit of respect... don't you think?  I respected Rusty, even though I wasn't always his biggest fan.  I respect Mark Martin.  These guys gave a lot.  Remember though, these guys also have been given a lot.  They are under constant criticism and most of the times they handle it pretty well, other than the occasional Tony breakdown.  I even respect Busch (up to a point) .... take your pick which one... even if I don't like them. 

I agree with Chris.  I'm glad we can disagree without it being a personal insult.  I hope that you can see some of what I'm saying though, otherwise I'm just getting finger exercises by writing all of this.  I do call some of what you wrote correct, even if I do disagree with some of the rest.  Anytime someone can back up their opinions with examples and reason... I respect that.

[cousinbilly]

[SMOKEN14]

Hey Blu - now you can see exactly why J. Gordon's teammate is J. Johnson...   They both act/talk/behave/race/interview the same way...

                                                                               

You Got That Right 

[Tyyrus]

Hey Frontstretch folks , how many of you remember the Daytona Race , when JG intentionally side drafted the Big "E" resulting in numerous fans being injured by Dales Hood landing in the stands ? Thats when "Your's Truly " lost respect
for Jeffy. No need for this form of calculated & reckless driving on Super Speedways never was & never shall be ! Guess thats why I,am a Martin Fan , win or lose !  Race Clean ! None  of that "Oh ! its only Racing " Hey these guys are Professionals   *** Hey don't get me wrong***  Gordon is a heck of a talent , I just question his actions & maturity . As far as cheating , heck they all do to an extent , ("That Grey Area")  expanding the "Intent of the Law" more or less. I have no problem with that , Nascar has the form of control on it ("More or Less" ) !!   

P.S.
Yeh ! I admit Jeffy has changed for the better , not quite as self-centred or arrogant !... and even has shown a marked
improvement in self preservation , re: Wear your Helmet whenever you confront a fellow Driver " So he don't punch yer lights out !  ... Baby !

                                Ok ! So I have'nt made any points with the Gordo Fan's , but let me just say ,
                                 I respect your rights , I just do not respect Jeff's Personna !!! 


        Blu's Quote:
                             

 First off let me thank you for your thoughts on this. I posted out of a need to vent and I do truly appreciate the  decent discussion.

  I can't deny the guys got obvious talent (I just don't like the guy)(or I shoukd say ..his actions, and...attitude?) or really ANYONE like him I should say. 

Somehting in your post really struck me though. You said "Jeff has definitely changed over the past 5 years" and it was almost a light bulb moment for me!