Edwards Shows His True Colors/Punishment

[Fathead]

NASCAR racing, in and of itself, is a dangerous and potentially deadly sport.
NASCAR drivers are aware of that fact and, so too, should the fans be aware. When fans are seated in what's usually considered the best seats close to the track and the high-speed action, chances are they're also in a potential danger zone.

The fans shouldn't have been at risk at all in this instance, because Carl should know better than to turn someone at that point on the track.   Nice attempt to shift the blame to the fans though.

To blame Brad, Carl, Denny, Tony, or Kevin, ...... or any other driver, for creating a dangerous situation within a dangerous sport? The fans want safer racing? How 'bout NASCAR restricting speeds to 75mph or below? The racing would be much safer then.
But is safety really the issue here?

Of course its  the issue.   Carl put Brad and the fans in a situation where safety was compromised.   He's damn lucky not to have killed someone.

I read folks opine that NASCAR didn't whack Carl hard enough for what he did to poor Brad.
Claims of that sending a message to the drivers that it's all right to put another driver into the wall or into the air, resulting in more of that happening can be expected.
I disagree.

I think NASCAR just sent a message to the punk drivers who think they can continually mess with other drivers and hide behind a NASCAR rule that punishes any driver who pays them back. They're cowards, and they were just informed that what goes around comes around with no big penalties. That ought to put a stop to the games those tweaks play out there on the track if they realize they are setting themSELVES up for a pay back. A deterrent to their game playing, which is also dangerous. Both in the action(s) themselves as well as the reprisal they can now expect to receive for their punk actions.

They most certainly did create a situation where these things are gonna happen more often.   Some guy puts you in the wall?   Fix your car, put him in the wall because you'll only get a slap on the wrist.   I feel bad for whoever the first guy to make a mistake at Daytona/Talladega after this, because he's gonna have 20 cars gunning for him.

Carl Edwards doesn't start each race with a list of drivers to cause to crash, so what makes him single out one driver over the others? I'm sure words have been exchanged betwixt the participants involved, and words didn't solve the problem. So the problem's solution was taken to the next level. Who brought that on? Are they not in line to share the blame.

Once again, nice blame shift.  Carl is responsible for Carl's actions.   Provocation does not absolve one of responsibility.   It doesn't matter in the slightest why Carl did it, or any past history, Carl is the one who decided to take "justice" into his own hands and put a large number of other people at risk.

I read "what ifs".
Well, what if Brad had decided to calm down out there and quit being a punk?
I doubt Carl would have sent him into a low orbit if that were the case. But it's like a little yappy dog nipping at your ankles. Irritating and annoying and painful, and most of us would put up with that for just so long before we punt said yappy dog into the nearest wall.
Brad yapped at and nipped too many drivers, including the wrong one.
He got a lesson in racing as well as a lesson in life.
If he's smart, he'll wise up.
If not, he'll remain a wise guy punk.

And what if a crap flinging monkey runs out on the track and hits Carl?  Does that give him an excuse to flip a car going 185 mph?   It certainly does not.   The person in the wrong is Carl.    Whether Brad did something wrong in the past is completely and totally irrelevant.

Best sponsor for Brad then would be Target.
Hit the bulls eye and stop the bovine excrement.
To be kicked to the curb by a 100+ laps down driver while running in the top 10 is a hard pill to swallow. But it sure sends a message that could be repeated often.
Brad is the new Buckshot Jones.
And Buckshot Jones was blamed for causing crashes in races he wasn't even running in.
What team wants a driver who runs in the top 10 and finishes thirty-something with a wadded-up race car on a regular basis.
SOMEbody better sit ol' Brad down and explain the facts of NASCAR racing before HE gets someone hurt, or worse.

The bolded part I agree with, because Brad obviously isn't making many friends, but once again, nothing Brad did gave Carl the right to flip a car doing 185 mph right next to the grandstands, putting hundreds of fans at risk.   

[HUDSON HORNET]

The fans shouldn't have been at risk at all in this instance, because Carl should know better than to turn someone at that point on the track.   Nice attempt to shift the blame to the fans though.

I'm not attempting to "shift the blame" to the fans.
I'm just stating that NASCAR racing is potentially dangerous to ANYone who is close to the action. Any fan who believes they're 100% safe while sitting close to the action is fooling themselves. Even as fans, we need to be aware of our surroundings and plan for what MAY happen. Those fans who just sit back and bask in the action with no concern for what could happen put themselves in danger. Experienced fans remain alert for what ifs.

Of course its  the issue.   Carl put Brad and the fans in a situation where safety was compromised.   He's damn lucky not to have killed someone.

Is it then your claim that Brad is totally innocent? Brad had absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened?
Sorry. but I ain't buyin' that bridge.
Brad is just as much to blame as Carl,  maybe even more.
If Brad wasn't aware that pay-back is a mo-digger, he should be now.
Time will tell how smart Brad is.

They most certainly did create a situation where these things are gonna happen more often.

That's an opinion and it might be correct.
Again, time will tell.   

Some guy puts you in the wall?   Fix your car, put him in the wall because you'll only get a slap on the wrist.

YuP!
Anyone stupid enough to push the envelope will suffer the consequences. Brad need to man up and realize what his actions cause. Unless he's stuck on stupid and can't get it through his block head. If Brad doesn't wise up, his NASCAR days might be numbered. He isn't good for a team and the teams will realize that. 

 I feel bad for whoever the first guy to make a mistake at Daytona/Talladega after this, because he's gonna have 20 cars gunning for him.

Again, that's an opinion.
And again, time will tell.

Once again, nice blame shift.  Carl is responsible for Carl's actions.   Provocation does not absolve one of responsibility.

And Brad provoked the actions Carl took.
It takes two to tango.  

It doesn't matter in the slightest why Carl did it, or any past history,

I disagree.
It has EVERYthing to do with it.
Now, if Brad was a totally nice guy on the track with no questionable incidents to his credit, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. But that's not the case. Brad seems to put himself in the dawghouse. Ergo, Brad can expect more of the same if he doesn't change his punk ways.

Carl is the one who decided to take "justice" into his own hands and put a large number of other people at risk.

I'm thinkin' Carl got a lot of pats on the back from other drivers who feel the same way about Brad's antics on the track. I'll bet he even heard many stating they were gunnin' for ol' Brad themselves. It's just that Carl got to Brad first with a message.

I don't see Mark Martin gettin' put into the wall on purpose by other drivers. There's a reason for that. Mark races clean. Brad doesn't.
However, Brad is a top notch whiner.
Cry me a river, Brad.

And what if a crap flinging monkey runs out on the track and hits Carl?

"Crap flinging monkey"?
You must be making reference to Talladega.
Although the title would also fit Brad. 

Does that give him an excuse to flip a car going 185 mph?   It certainly does not.

It may not give Carl an "excuse", but it obviously gave him a reason.   

The person in the wrong is Carl.

Another person in the wrong is Brad, the crap flinging monkey.   

Whether Brad did something wrong in the past is completely and totally irrelevant.

I disagree.
How long should Brad be allowed to be the punk racer that he's showing HIS true colors of being -- before SOMEone puts a stop to his chicken little style of racing?

The bolded part I agree with, because Brad obviously isn't making many friends,

Ya reckon?

but once again, nothing Brad did gave Carl the right to flip a car doing 185 mph right next to the grandstands, putting hundreds of fans at risk.   

Once again, Brad certainly DID do something to cause Carl to react the way he did. I doubt it was Carl's intention to send Brad to the moon, but that's the chance Brad takes every time he punks another driver out there. May be right, may be wrong. But it is what it is, human nature. If Brad can live with that and find success, so be it. But expect pay-back when he does other drivers wrong.

Who does Brad think he is anyway?

[KurtBuschFan]

Yeah, but I spent 4 hours listening to NASCAR on sirius yesterday, on the way back from Reno, and all of the pundits on there, who have more experience in NASCAR than I do, agree that Brad's past incidents on-track likely weighed in on how they penalized Carl. I'm not just saying that based on my own observations.

And that's the biggest bunch of BS.  It's okay to intentionally wreck someone if they've been in previous problems because it'll only be a slap on the wrist for a penalty.  We've all bitched about NASCAR being inconsistent, and if who was involved was factored into the penalty, then it's anything but consistent.

But don't get me wrong...I didn't even want a suspension in the first place.  Like TF20 said earlier in the thread.  If a driver says $*#& on tv they get fined 25 points but wrecking someone at nearly 200 mph doesn't.  There's something wrong with that picture.

What a lot of people are forgetting is that Carl is the one that turned across Brad's nose in the first place to cause the initial damage...and pretty much said so on tv.  I honestly don't see why he was so upset about that early wreck.  Brad clearly backed off but couldn't back off enough and Carl chose to turn down anyway.  Sounds like he was the one at fault in both wrecks.

[just a fan]

This is certainly a polarizing topic. I guess it just comes down to what type of racing do you want to see?

No way Edwards could have known the car would get in the air. Even NASCAR admitted that. It has never happened before at a 1 1/2 mile track. The car got in the air because of a design flaw pure and simple. If you think he should have known then please give an example of when one got in the air before at a similar track. Should he have turned him at that speed....no. Also why is everyone talking about fan safety? He never touched the catch fence and was nowhere near going into the stands. Fans take a certain risk when they attend a sporting event. I was in the stands when Neil Bonnett rolled along the fence and sent parts flying through the crowd at Talladegega all around me. That has never kept me from returning to a race. I have felt more fear sitting behind the dugout at a Braves game waiting for a fould ball to hit me.

So when does NASCAR penalize? What should the rule be? And how can you enforce it? In my opinion it is far too subjective. I for one am happy NASCAR is getting out of the babysitting business. Let the drivers personalities come out and let the sport be what it was when it was growing. It stopped growing when it became so politically correct and corporate.

[KurtBuschFan]

At this point, all I hope for is to see NASCAR pass along the same penalty regardless of what driver is on the giving and receiving end.  Somehow I doubt that'll be the case though...if Robby Gordon is on the giving end and JJ is on the receiving end, I'm willing to bet it would have been handled differently.

[Brian623]

 I am a believer that when NASCAR created the 2010 master plan for drivers "going at it" , that should have meant in their eyes everyone started with a blank page. Past incidents should not be taken into how discipline is given out this year.
 And it appears that is how this was handled. Now if Carl gets himself into another"incident", that history should count longer than just through the "double secret " probation period, in my humble opinion. I think my bigger problem is the unfairness of a top 5 car being taken down by a driver in the back of the field, who can loose so little even if he trashes his car on the "retaliation". And that's why i would have docked money and/ or points from Edwards.

[KurtBuschFan]

I am a believer that when NASCAR created the 2010 master plan for drivers "going at it" , that should have meant in their eyes everyone started with a blank page. Past incidents should not be taken into how discipline is given out this year.
 And it appears that is how this was handled. Now if Carl gets himself into another"incident", that history should count longer than just through the "double secret " probation period, in my humble opinion. I think my bigger problem is the unfairness of a top 5 car being taken down by a driver in the back of the field, who can loose so little even if he trashes his car on the "retaliation". And that's why i would have docked money and/ or points from Edwards.

Agreed on all points.  And I guess that really the root of my anger/frustration/whatever you want to call it comes from the bolded part above.

[scott b]

No way Edwards could have known the car would get in the air. Even NASCAR admitted that. It has never happened before at a 1 1/2 mile track. The car got in the air because of a design flaw pure and simple.

Pole speed at Daytona this year was 191.188 (Mark Martin).  Jr's pole speed for Atlanta was 192.761.  

The potential for an very ugly wreck at a track like ATL or Michigan is much greater than people realize.

This is not a COT design flaw. The wing is a convenience scapegoat, no one liked it and the plan to drop it was already in place.

When you try to punch a hole in the air big enough for a stock car to go thru at those speeds while it's turned sideways or backwards, bad things are going to happen.  Switching back to a lip spoiler won't cure that!

Am I the only one who was not shocked to see a car catch air?

[CodeBlueEMT]

 "Am I the only one who was not shocked to see a car catch air?"

 You shouldn't be.

 
 

[HUDSON HORNET]

At this point, all I hope for is to see NASCAR pass along the same penalty regardless of what driver is on the giving and receiving end.

I agree.
A three race probation seems to be the punishment. 

Somehow I doubt that'll be the case though...if Robby Gordon is on the giving end and JJ is on the receiving end, I'm willing to bet it would have been handled differently.

I think NASCAR might prefer to have a different champion this season,
so, I'll take that bet. 

[KurtBuschFan]

I agree.
A three race probation seems to be the punishment.

Sadly, yes that seems to be the punishment.  Let's see if they can stick with it throughout the season...

[HUDSON HORNET]

  Let's see if they can stick with it throughout the season...

Question is, will NASCAR fans stick with NASCAR throughout the season?   

[Tonyfan14]

Since wrecking a guy on purpose going 190 mph+ only gets you a 3 race probation, do you think NASCAR will allow Stewart to go back to swinging at reporters and knocking their tape recorders out of their hands? I miss those days.


 

[HUDSON HORNET]

Since wrecking a guy on purpose going 190 mph+ only gets you a 3 race probation, do you think NASCAR will allow Stewart to go back to swinging at reporters and knocking their tape recorders out of their hands? I miss those days.


 

You and me both, Tonyfan.
But I think Tony was different in that he said and did things many fans appreciated,
sometimes. Other times Tony was clearly in the wrong.
But it seems Tony has seen the light and changed his ways on the track.

Just a Fan's last paragraph in post #93 pretty much sums up how I feel about it all.

[KurtBuschFan]

Question is, will NASCAR fans stick with NASCAR throughout the season?  

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I'm willing to stick it out.  I've been happy with what I've seen so far (minus how I feel about this penalty), so I'm hopeful this will still be a great season.  And I can't help but be curious about the difference the spoiler will make with these cars versus the wing.