Edwards Shows His True Colors/Punishment

[Busch Babe 899]

But don't get me wrong...I didn't even want a suspension in the first place.  Like TF20 said earlier in the thread.  If a driver says $*#& on tv they get fined 25 points but wrecking someone at nearly 200 mph doesn't.  There's something wrong with that picture.

That's an FCC thing, NOT a NASCAR thing...I doubt anyone in NASCAR even minded the day Dale Jr dropped the s-word on the air after winning 'Dega....but because the FCC would fine them for allowing it to happen during the daytime, when kids may be watching, that's now a law. Same reason why we have to @#$% or **** certain words on message boards.

I like how Jeff Hammond puts it...you can tell he's gotten really perturbed, ESPECIALLY about some critics. He doesn't name any names, just takes some to task for their opinions....especially the ones where they cheered NASCAR's plan to back off and "let the drivers race" in January, but now are saying "Oh no, that's too much!"

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/NASCAR-critics-should-stop-whining

[HUDSON HORNET]

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I'm willing to stick it out.  I've been happy with what I've seen so far (minus how I feel about this penalty), so I'm hopeful this will still be a great season.  And I can't help but be curious about the difference the spoiler will make with these cars versus the wing.

You're a rare gem well worth keeping, KBF.   
I've been absent from the NASCAR scene for the last couple of seasons for various reasons
and am now trying to re-generate my interest, which is why I was so disappointed when I returned to this web site only to find it nearly dead.
If nothing else, I'd like to thank Cousin Carl, Brad, Denny and/or anyone else for generating more interest here among the fine posters I've come to know and enjoy. Thanx y'all!   
Much appreciated.
I look forward to many stimulating conversations.
IMO, NASCAR fans are the greatest.
If you're readin' this, that means YOU. 

[skool]

This is not a COT design flaw. The wing is a convenience scapegoat, no one liked it and the plan to drop it was already in place.

When you try to punch a hole in the air big enough for a stock car to go thru at those speeds while it's turned sideways or backwards, bad things are going to happen.  Switching back to a lip spoiler won't cure that!

Am I the only one who was not shocked to see a car catch air?

Does no one remember that the roof flaps were put on the car to keep it from getting airborne when going backwards? It worked REALLY REALLY well with the spoiler configuration on the cars.

Now they go and put the wing on........with that wing and the car going backwards at speed, you would have to have the whole darn ROOF of the car be a roof flap to negate the the force of the air rushing under the wing backwards!

Stick you hand out the window while driving......now, tilt your hand so your fingers point in an upward position.....what happens?  Thats right, your hand goes UP and BACK! Same thing with air going under the wing backwards at high speed!  It aint rocket science!

[Tyyrus]

Well my two cents ! Yep the Rear Wing is the Culprit . Not even due to it size and shape , but for the rearward placement of it behind the rear deck . It will lift any car off it's Wheels at a 1-1/2 Track as Fast as Atlanta . It's sad that Officials at Nascar are so Lame to State that their surprised it happened , Hell the Pole Sitter Qualified faster than the Pole Sitter @ Daytona.  It will help when the Rear Spoiler is put back on !   

[Blu]

Ive about thought all Im gonna think about this deal, and after this post said about all im gonna say about it.
It seems pretty pointless to continue further discussion when both sides are pretty much polar opposite in their viewpoints about....well.... everything regarding this particular incident.

Carl fans and defenders will never see the other sides point of view, or even admit that they saw the same thing happen (it's almost like we are talking about 2 seperate entirely different incidents here at times), and, for those of us with a different opinion, we will never see how you can hold Carl blameless and not mosty at fault in this.
I usually try not to bang my head on the wall more than twice before realizing that im not ever gonna get thru, and it's time to stop.

First off, this post isnt directed to anyone in general but merely thoughts and opinions of my own regarding previous posts,reading articles and op-ed columns regarding  what shall now be known (to me anyways) as "the wreck"

So far, Ive heard that..... this is Keso's fault, it's NASCAR's fault, it's the COT's fault, it's the fans fault if they get hurt,etc.. I may be all wet here but It seems that  the ONLY one who is truly at fault "the wreck" happened,..... is held blameless. Call me crrrazzy!

Again, I must be waaay off in left field, but, in my impartial (In all honesty I truly dont like/dislike CE or BK enough to sway me one way or the other)  viewpoint IF Edwards DOESN"T turn "bighead Brad", the car doesnt go backwards at 185+ and  fly, and no ones life is endangered,etc., i.e. "the wreck" doesnt happen.

Now,Correct me if Im wrong here but Im pretty sure racecars are designed to provide a ton of  down force when going forward,so  it just stands to reason the OPPOSITE (lift) , would then happen going backwards IMHO.
Wing. or spoiler be damned, And, you all know weve seen it before both ways so thats really a moot point IMO. A race car WILL fly if going backward fast enough, end of story.
 Im also pretty sure CE is a private pilot and therefore  knows at least a little about the principals of lift, and the required speeds to create enough lift to "take off". In fact,  I doubt his twin Cessna or Piper or whatever he  has, DOESN'T need a take off speed of anywhere even close to  185 mph to take off .
 Its not really much of a stretch to figure  that even  a brick will fly at some point given enough speed, let alone a race car creating lift by going the wrong way it was designed too.   Thats not the cars fault..it was never made to go backwards at high speed , it was designed to create downforce going FORWARD ...and no one but CE turned it the wrong way!

 Would I personally still  be talking about this IF the car didnt fly, and the wreck look so scary?  Without a doubt... Yes!  I dont really care who was the punter, and who was the ball it's flat out WRONG to turn a car at 185+,  AND while not even in the lead lap.
 Ive noticed something hearing of and seeing  a great many past incidents brought up here and other places that were similar to this in the past, that most, if not all, had one thing in common...it was for position, the lead or the win in nearly EVERY case! Something thats not even close to being fact in this one folks.

Ive read The fans should know the dangers and not sit in those front rows..either that, or accept the inherent risk amd high probability (even higher now IMO) that they could be killed or injured.by someone going "Vigilante" and playing Judge, Jury and Executioner with NASCAR'S apparent blessing IF they feel wronged. (BTW Right or wrong, lives, other drivers, fans etc. dont seem to matter. As long as the driver "Feels" wronged it's OK to do "whatever needs doin'" in the words of  Gary Cooper anyways).

Using that logic then I guess I should not be surprised if a frozen turd out of a 35K foot high airliner falls on my head..after all...I can see he is directly over me, and, I KNOW  they DO dump waste at alttitude, therefore I shouldnt be there..or else I accept that risk.Right?

Orr....a little closer to home, a tire blows on that 53 footer Im pulling with the big truck and blasts thru the window of the car next to me at the time, killing the passenger and injuring 2 small children in the back.. THEIR fault again!! That driver  knows the dangers of being beside a big truck tire like that, there's been plenty of news stories and articles about this to give fair warning, they blow everyday, and we see them "gators"  (long strips of tires) all over the road every day, Therefore the driver, passenger (by saying nothing) and the children (by their parents actions) accepted the risk.  They also should have known by looking at my ratty old truck and trailer that could have hapopend, so...not my fault. It's THEIRS!

Orrr...that punk kid in the beat up Camaro, and the greasy haired blonde beside him fliiping me the finger, that keeps speeding up and slowing down, cutting in front of me, hitting his brakes and nearly put me in the ditch ( or worse if that trailer jacknifes) a few times while Im simply out there in the ol Freightshaker minding my own business with the cruise set at 65 , 38k of $2.00 a mile gold  in the old box back there , and "Freebird" playing on the cassette player.
I decide its time to give a little "payback" to get him to stop. So...I give him a little tap to the rusty rear bumper just "to rattle his cage" a little. The little Jr. Mario Andretti swerves to the left and then overcorrects and starts to slide.....right back under the wheels of that 38k box behind me.   The Camaro crumples like a pop can on the passenger side before i  can get stopped, Blondies dead, Mario's seriously injured and traumatized by catching Blondies head in his lap, ....and me?
Welll...Im OK... see it wasnt my fault.
 THEY started it, THEY knew the dangers (and by not stopping messing with me  accepted the consequences, using the above logic concerning fans) of messing with a big truck.THEY knew what would happen in a wreck with a big truck.
How was I to know that that Camaro had a rear subframe held together by hope, dope and a little rust and that little bump from me caused the rear end to break loose making Mario perform very UN Mario like. Now that...THATS the cars fault!!

Sure, Im sorry it happened the way it did! Safety is always my number one concern, and we drivers have to respect one another out here!   "Mario" shoulda known what would happen,! After all...THEY started it, and nearly wrecked ME a time or 2, THEY accepted the consequences, THEY knew what would happen in car Vs. big truck. I didnt intend for THAT to happen of course

to paraphrase a popular driver here would then be MY response...

"Mario" knows the deal between him and I. The scary part was his car went "under the truck", which was not at all what I expected. At the end of the day, we’re out here to "drive" and people have to have respect for one another, and I have a lot of respect for people’s safety. I wish it wouldn’t have gone like it did, but I'm glad he’s OK " now" , and we’ll just go on and "drive" some more and maybe him and I won’t get in any more incidents together. That would be the best thing."

"What should I  have done then??  My options: Considering that "Mario" nearly wrecks me with no regard for anyones safety or hard work, should I: A-Keep letting him wreck me? B-Confront him after "we pull over at the next rest area"? C-Wait til I see him again and maybe collect other cars? or D-Take care of it now?"

"I want to be clear that I was surprised at his action and very relieved when he eventually walked away OK. Every person has to decide what code they want to live by and hopefully this explains mine."

Yeah.... Im pretty sure Id be going to jail and eventually prison with that statement. . Pretty ridiculous response, isnt it??

Almost as ridiculous as when CE said it (with very slight variations) last Sunday.

my last $.02
Blu

[FS_Amy]

Blaming the wing is a cop-out, IMO.  Even if the wing did cause the car to flip when it went around backwards, the wing did not cause the car to turn, carl Edwards did.  The wing didn't get ticked off at Keselowski and decide to punt him, Carl Edwards did.  You can make excuses for him all you want, but at the end of the day, Edwards is responsible for turning BK around, and because he turned him, he is responsible for everything that happened to both BK and the fans in the stands as a direct result of the turn.  Everything.  ALL of it.  the wing wiouldn't have flipped Keselowski if he had been facing in theright direction. By turning the No. 12 when and where he did, Edwards demonstrated that he did not care what happened to anyone but himself after the hit that bumper.  If he didn't intend for the car to get airborne, maybe he should have waited two races, and then the wing wouldn't even be on the car.  Otherwise, he knew it was a possibility when a Cup car gets backwards at 195 or so, because it's happened before.  What happened is squarely on one man's shoulders.  Nobody else's.

[Blu]

Absolutely correct Amy!

[HUDSON HORNET]

Ive about thought all Im gonna think about this deal, and after this post said about all im gonna say about it.
It seems pretty pointless to continue further discussion when both sides are pretty much polar opposite in their viewpoints about....well.... everything regarding this particular incident.

That being the case, amigo, ...... what point is there for anyone to respond one way or the other?
I rest my case. 

Can we agree that the incident in question revived stimulating discussion? 

How 'bout a group hug and a rousing rendition of
coom-by-yah?   


 

[Blu]

On the  contrary bud, feel free to "have at it" (pun intended) with this thread.    

All Im saying is that Ive hit my head more than twice and it's time for ME to stop before I suffer further brain damage than Ive already suffered over the years  LOL Ive simply made all the points I want to make on it.

I surely do agree Discussion is GREAT to see! Stimulating or otherwise

Ok HH, we CAN sing, but..we AINT holding hands, Blu dont play that!   

[SMOKEN14]

Ive about thought all Im gonna think about this deal, and after this post said about all im gonna say about it.
It seems pretty pointless to continue further discussion when both sides are pretty much polar opposite in their viewpoints about....well.... everything regarding this particular incident.

Carl fans and defenders will never see the other sides point of view, or even admit that they saw the same thing happen (it's almost like we are talking about 2 seperate entirely different incidents here at times), and, for those of us with a different opinion, we will never see how you can hold Carl blameless and not mosty at fault in this.
I usually try not to bang my head on the wall more than twice before realizing that im not ever gonna get thru, and it's time to stop.

First off, this post isnt directed to anyone in general but merely thoughts and opinions of my own regarding previous posts,reading articles and op-ed columns regarding  what shall now be known (to me anyways) as "the wreck"

So far, Ive heard that..... this is Keso's fault, it's NASCAR's fault, it's the COT's fault, it's the fans fault if they get hurt,etc.. I may be all wet here but It seems that  the ONLY one who is truly at fault "the wreck" happened,..... is held blameless. Call me crrrazzy!

Again, I must be waaay off in left field, but, in my impartial (In all honesty I truly dont like/dislike CE or BK enough to sway me one way or the other)  viewpoint IF Edwards DOESN"T turn "bighead Brad", the car doesnt go backwards at 185+ and  fly, and no ones life is endangered,etc., i.e. "the wreck" doesnt happen.

Now,Correct me if Im wrong here but Im pretty sure racecars are designed to provide a ton of  down force when going forward,so  it just stands to reason the OPPOSITE (lift) , would then happen going backwards IMHO.
Wing. or spoiler be damned, And, you all know weve seen it before both ways so thats really a moot point IMO. A race car WILL fly if going backward fast enough, end of story.
 Im also pretty sure CE is a private pilot and therefore  knows at least a little about the principals of lift, and the required speeds to create enough lift to "take off". In fact,  I doubt his twin Cessna or Piper or whatever he  has, DOESN'T need a take off speed of anywhere even close to  185 mph to take off .
 Its not really much of a stretch to figure  that even  a brick will fly at some point given enough speed, let alone a race car creating lift by going the wrong way it was designed too.   Thats not the cars fault..it was never made to go backwards at high speed , it was designed to create downforce going FORWARD ...and no one but CE turned it the wrong way!

 Would I personally still  be talking about this IF the car didnt fly, and the wreck look so scary?  Without a doubt... Yes!  I dont really care who was the punter, and who was the ball it's flat out WRONG to turn a car at 185+,  AND while not even in the lead lap.
 Ive noticed something hearing of and seeing  a great many past incidents brought up here and other places that were similar to this in the past, that most, if not all, had one thing in common...it was for position, the lead or the win in nearly EVERY case! Something thats not even close to being fact in this one folks.

Ive read The fans should know the dangers and not sit in those front rows..either that, or accept the inherent risk amd high probability (even higher now IMO) that they could be killed or injured.by someone going "Vigilante" and playing Judge, Jury and Executioner with NASCAR'S apparent blessing IF they feel wronged. (BTW Right or wrong, lives, other drivers, fans etc. dont seem to matter. As long as the driver "Feels" wronged it's OK to do "whatever needs doin'" in the words of  Gary Cooper anyways).

Using that logic then I guess I should not be surprised if a frozen turd out of a 35K foot high airliner falls on my head..after all...I can see he is directly over me, and, I KNOW  they DO dump waste at alttitude, therefore I shouldnt be there..or else I accept that risk.Right?

Orr....a little closer to home, a tire blows on that 53 footer Im pulling with the big truck and blasts thru the window of the car next to me at the time, killing the passenger and injuring 2 small children in the back.. THEIR fault again!! That driver  knows the dangers of being beside a big truck tire like that, there's been plenty of news stories and articles about this to give fair warning, they blow everyday, and we see them "gators"  (long strips of tires) all over the road every day, Therefore the driver, passenger (by saying nothing) and the children (by their parents actions) accepted the risk.  They also should have known by looking at my ratty old truck and trailer that could have hapopend, so...not my fault. It's THEIRS!

Orrr...that punk kid in the beat up Camaro, and the greasy haired blonde beside him fliiping me the finger, that keeps speeding up and slowing down, cutting in front of me, hitting his brakes and nearly put me in the ditch ( or worse if that trailer jacknifes) a few times while Im simply out there in the ol Freightshaker minding my own business with the cruise set at 65 , 38k of $2.00 a mile gold  in the old box back there , and "Freebird" playing on the cassette player.
I decide its time to give a little "payback" to get him to stop. So...I give him a little tap to the rusty rear bumper just "to rattle his cage" a little. The little Jr. Mario Andretti swerves to the left and then overcorrects and starts to slide.....right back under the wheels of that 38k box behind me.   The Camaro crumples like a pop can on the passenger side before i  can get stopped, Blondies dead, Mario's seriously injured and traumatized by catching Blondies head in his lap, ....and me?
Welll...Im OK... see it wasnt my fault.
 THEY started it, THEY knew the dangers (and by not stopping messing with me  accepted the consequences, using the above logic concerning fans) of messing with a big truck.THEY knew what would happen in a wreck with a big truck.
How was I to know that that Camaro had a rear subframe held together by hope, dope and a little rust and that little bump from me caused the rear end to break loose making Mario perform very UN Mario like. Now that...THATS the cars fault!!

Sure, Im sorry it happened the way it did! Safety is always my number one concern, and we drivers have to respect one another out here!   "Mario" shoulda known what would happen,! After all...THEY started it, and nearly wrecked ME a time or 2, THEY accepted the consequences, THEY knew what would happen in car Vs. big truck. I didnt intend for THAT to happen of course

to paraphrase a popular driver here would then be MY response...

"Mario" knows the deal between him and I. The scary part was his car went "under the truck", which was not at all what I expected. At the end of the day, we’re out here to "drive" and people have to have respect for one another, and I have a lot of respect for people’s safety. I wish it wouldn’t have gone like it did, but I'm glad he’s OK " now" , and we’ll just go on and "drive" some more and maybe him and I won’t get in any more incidents together. That would be the best thing."

"What should I  have done then??  My options: Considering that "Mario" nearly wrecks me with no regard for anyones safety or hard work, should I: A-Keep letting him wreck me? B-Confront him after "we pull over at the next rest area"? C-Wait til I see him again and maybe collect other cars? or D-Take care of it now?"

"I want to be clear that I was surprised at his action and very relieved when he eventually walked away OK. Every person has to decide what code they want to live by and hopefully this explains mine."

Yeah.... Im pretty sure Id be going to jail and eventually prison with that statement. . Pretty ridiculous response, isnt it??

Almost as ridiculous as when CE said it (with very slight variations) last Sunday.

my last $.02
Blu

ROFLMAO Only another brother trucker could of come up with that. funny how we try to get every last mile out of those recaps 

[HUDSON HORNET]

ROFLMAO Only another brother trucker could of come up with that. funny how we try to get every last mile out of those recaps 

WhaT?! 
You mean Blu and I aren't the only brain damaged brother truckers here?   

Pull 'er 'round back and bring in all your paperwork and log book(s) driver.
(I hope they don't notice the under inflated recaps on the steer axle.)

Good ol' Blu has a way of putting things into perspective well enough that even a million-miler
can understand.
Make room on that floor you're laughin' your A off on, Smoken.
It's difficult enough for me to avoid the alligators.   

[SMOKEN14]

WhaT?! 
You mean Blu and I aren't the only brain damaged brother truckers here?   

Pull 'er 'round back and bring in all your paperwork and log book(s) driver.
(I hope they don't notice the under inflated recaps on the steer axle.)

Good ol' Blu has a way of putting things into perspective well enough that even a million-miler
can understand.
Make room on that floor you're laughin' your A off on, Smoken.
It's difficult enough for me to avoid the alligators.   

Got pulled in at the chicken coop one day Ole DOT Dan [Rookie]gives me the park and bring in your papers sign so I take everything in he Say's where's your log book I say I'M Hauling Lumber Not Logs Why would I have A log book He Proceeds to tell me how much trouble I'M in meanwhile his trainer is Laughing his ass off tells the Rookie did you bother to check his Registration and License? Yes Sir well wheres he from? Snohomish WA Sir Really How far away is that? 30 miles Well did it ever don on you he's a Local driver and doesn't run a log book ........DOH I love Flatbeding it

[Blu]

HH ...even you aint crazy enough to run recaps on your steers.      

I thought about it once, but.. my personal back door is a one way  street, and anyways... I dont think the whole drivers seat would fit when i sucked it up anyways  when she inevitably seperated and I didnt wanna find out, ya know??  

SMOKEN!! I either didnt know or forgot you was a steering wheel holder too!   Well...I was, but now Im sorta retarded. At least thats what my grandson says...  Ya gotta love him though

BWAA HAA I loved that story bro!

  I had a little fun one day myself. I used to haul into the Fort Wayne , IN.  GM truck plant pretty regular and I  got to know the guards there pretty good.
Now, I dont know if either of you guys ever been to a GM assembly plant but they make ya  stop and open the trailer going in and going out, I guess to see  if ya stole a pickup truck or something.

  Anyways I bought a little die cast Chevy pickup    about 1/24 scale and kept it in the cab till I got back there eventually. When I did and had unloaded I set that little pickup right in side the trailer doors. Oh man!! You shoulda seen that guards face when I swung open those doors!!  It was pretty much...        

Then, I held up my hands and said, "Aww man ....ya GOT ME!!"  



That guy NEVER EVER forgot THAT!!  




Sorry for the hijack fellow posters...now..back to our regularly scheduled program.

[HUDSON HORNET]

Sorry for the hijack fellow posters...now..back to our regularly scheduled program.

YeaH, me too.
But I'm gonna do it anyway -------   

Flash back to the first year of my driving career, Running team, we had just made a driver change when we came upon the
Klamath Falls, Oregon scales, .................................

Those scales weren't the long platform scales, they still weighed each axle. Steer axle first, pull forward to weigh the drive axles, then the trailer. After weighing my steer axle, the green light illuminated indicating to pull forward. As I pulled ahead, the red light came on indicating my drives were on the scale and for me to stop. I remembered what seasoned drivers told me about bumping the scales by abrupt starts or quick stops, so I was being cautious. I hadn't rolled too far before applying the brakes and my drives weren't off the scales yet when the scalemaster began yelling STOP!
Stop that truck driver! Do you know what STOP means?!
Pull around and bring in ALL of your paperwork, NOW!

GulP!   

I complied.

Upon entering the scale house, the portly scalemaster ignored my manifest papers and went directly to my log book. He grabbed a pencil and a calculator, then expertly rolled across the floor from one desk to another in his wooden, rolling chair and began crunching numbers. I thought that was a tad odd, but nothing compared to what was to come.

He looked at me with a one-eyed look, then back at my log book, then back at me. He then said, "Tell me driver, can you levitate?"
That question caught me off guard and I hesitated answering.
Then he asked me, "You DO know what levitation is, don't you?"
Yes, I answered.
"Well, what IS levitation?" he blurted.
I replied, when someone or something is suspended with no support.
He looked surprised at my answer.
"That's right. Can YOU do that?"

Uhhhhh, I don't think so, sir.

"Well then, explain to me how you went from On Duty Driving to Off Duty, then logged Sleeper Berth in Ripon, California, ---- then while in the Sleeper, you went from Ripon to K-Falls, then back to driving. Can you tell me that? How did you drive from the sleeper, driver?"

At that point I was thinkin' is this guy for real?
I told him I wasn't sure how that happened because I was asleep.
But if he wanted me to, I'd go fetch my co-driver who WAS driving, adding I was sure my co-driver could answer the question.

My log was obviously a team log as in the area marked Name Of Co-Driver appeared my co-driver's name.
Then came his blank stare as he told me he knew that.
I wanted to ask why he was asking me stupid questions then, but figured I better hold the wise cracks.
He then proceeded to check my log for spelling errors.

While all this was going on, a farmer driving a stake truck with a large water tank chained to the bed began driving onto the scale --- going the wrong way. Evidently he scaled over-weight and was re-weighing after draining some water. For those not familiar with the K-Falls scales, the entrance to the scale is slightly uphill. Enough that the scale is not visible until you're right there about to enter it. If another Big truck was coming in, the farmer's truck and it could meet head-on.

Uhhhhhh ---- sir, ........
"WHAT?"
Is that driver gonna cause a problem goin' the wrong way out there?

I never saw a rolling wooden chair roll so fast in my life as the scalemaster rolled to the microphone.
STOP DRIVER!
STOP THAT TRUCK!
BACK UP
YOU'RE GOIN' THE WRONG WAY.

Hmmmmmmm, ........
This is what I heard before I was instructed to come to the scale house, and where I was now being instructed to leave because the scalemaster had "more important things to do."

When I returned, my co-driver asked me what the scalemaster wanted and I told him.
He just gave me a blank stare and said if I didn't want to tell him, forget it.
So that's what I did ---- forgot it.
Until now, that is.

I swear
It's twue!
It's twue!
Even I, HUDSON HORNET, couldn't dream up a story like that. 

[OregonSHRFan]

I am VERY familiar with both the northbound and southbound Klamath Falls scales as they are about 40 minutes from my home!!! My husband used to OTR drive and got a chuckle out of you guys' stories.

I live outside of Chiloquin.