Something Needs To Be Done!

[flamehothead]

I know that Nascar could HIRE more people to watch the track if they wanted to it's not like they can't afford it. I seen the so-called debri for the first debri caution. It was NOT any car part that I have ever seen and I have been selling car part's for 15 years or so. I just heard Bob Dilner say that it was a HOT DOG wrapper, But to be honest with you I wouldn't TRUST his REPORTS if I had to. I suppose it is because of the FALSE report he did on RCR. Most of the Hot Dog wrappers that I have seen don't weigh a whole lot esspecially when a race car is going by at almost 200mph and the exhaust is blowing on it. Who knows maybe it's a special Na$car wrapper LMAO. The problem I have is that it was close enough to the fence for someone to tell what it was. If nothing else get the Officals a pair of binochulars(sorry for the spelling).

[Chris]

Hey,.. gotta have "SOMETHING" on the track so they have throw a yellow when they need to... You know when one of their 'heros' needs to stay on the lead lap (Gordon, Johnson, Earnhardt)...
And I'd say they DO have binochelors (sp) in the tower already.  GOTTA have some of those hot dog wrappers already picked out and KNOW where they are...  that way when the right situation ARISES and they WANT a 'debris' caution,.. they know right where that wrapper is.  Probably have someone watching it so they keep track of where it is,.... OOPS that one got blown off the track,.. get to finding another one quick...

[flamehothead]

I KNOW that the guy's in the Tower have binochelors, But I am talking about the men and women who are placed all around the track and all of the other offical's. I don't think that there should be a question about what is on the track. If they have people who do nothing but watch the track with BINOCHELORS then this problem would not come about unless one of thier HEROS needed a caution.

[PlanoHarvickFan]

I know that Nascar could HIRE more people to watch the track if they wanted to it's not like they can't afford it. I seen the so-called debri for the first debri caution. It was NOT any car part that I have ever seen and I have been selling car part's for 15 years or so. I just heard Bob Dilner say that it was a HOT DOG wrapper, But to be honest with you I wouldn't TRUST his REPORTS if I had to. I suppose it is because of the FALSE report he did on RCR. Most of the Hot Dog wrappers that I have seen don't weigh a whole lot esspecially when a race car is going by at almost 200mph and the exhaust is blowing on it. Who knows maybe it's a special Na$car wrapper LMAO. The problem I have is that it was close enough to the fence for someone to tell what it was. If nothing else get the Officals a pair of binochulars(sorry for the spelling).

We've been to a few races at TMS and I wouldn't be too surprised if it could have been a hot dog wrapper...a lot of fans are SUCH SLOBS. 

[Chris]

I KNOW that the guy's in the Tower have binochelors, But I am talking about the men and women who are placed all around the track and all of the other offical's. I don't think that there should be a question about what is on the track. If they have people who do nothing but watch the track with BINOCHELORS then this problem would not come about unless one of thier HEROS needed a caution.

Well let me give you a little 'inside' info...
A buddy of mine is a Nascar official... the way it works is this.  First there are "some" officials that travel with the series,.. and then they use some 'track' personel.
Even with the traveling Nascar officials it kinda works like this... don't speak unless you are spoken to.  The people in the tower get REAL upset.  And stay off the channel.
SO in some cases maybe someone sees it and KNOWS what it is (maybe they are close enough to KNOW it is paper,.. and no one asks them,.. so a yellow comes out)

Another guy who is a Nascar offical had the job of "roaming the pits"... he went to the cars as they went to the garage (after an accident, etc) and reported if they were out for the day.  Communication would go like...
"Tower??;
"Go ahead";
"#24 out for the day, transmission"

As long as no one fell out he didn't do anything.

[flamehothead]

Hey Chris!! What's up? I just want to make sure that I understand this. So if the official who is not suppost to not speak unless he is spoken to notices a Chunk of metal or something like that he isn't suppose to Speak. If it is a small piece or they are at a Superspeedway the officials in the tower are not going to see it, Which is understandable. I just wanted to make sure that I understood your post correctly. If that is the case then Nascar is not the sport that I thought it was, Because that just sounds very DANGEROUS .

[Chris]

well... it's kinda like you think,. but not exactly.
What happens is the "traveling" officials fill the positions on it road, in the garage, things that are "important".
Therefore they really aren't in a position to 'see' the track as a whole.  The wrecker drivers, etc, are track fill ins and they are the ones scattered threwout the track.
My buddy says Nascar has the opinion theses guys "know nothing" (even all we all know they have eyes and can see perfectly fine...) so their opinion or input from them about ANYTHING is pretty much frowned upon.

I know when I was an official at a Nascar track,.. and then when Nascar came to run a Autolight ELite division race,.. they treated us the same way.  It was the old:
"We are Nascar officials,.. we know it all,.. you are just peons, so obviously anything you could have to say is of little value"  Our wrecker drivers, etc didn't even have contact or be on the same radio frequency as the Nascar officials... so they COULDN'T talk to them if they wanted to.
Nascar just supplies radios but to it's OWN officials.  SO we had to use track radios.
We could talk to each other,... but not to Nascar.
I suspect it is the SAME thing when they go to a CUP event.  Just on a larger scale.  I could be wrong, but it's entirely possible.  Also theres a lot of 'chatter' that goes on on the local race channels that Nascar don't need to hear... so many time local track channels are used for wreckers and safety workers,.. while race control is on a different channel... so they CAN'T talk to the tower.
Which suits Nascar just fine.  They still have the attitude they know it all.

[Cangal48]

Hey,.. gotta have "SOMETHING" on the track so they have throw a yellow when they need to... You know when one of their 'heros' needs to stay on the lead lap (Gordon, Johnson, Earnhardt)...
And I'd say they DO have binochelors (sp) in the tower already.  GOTTA have some of those hot dog wrappers already picked out and KNOW where they are...  that way when the right situation ARISES and they WANT a 'debris' caution,.. they know right where that wrapper is.  Probably have someone watching it so they keep track of where it is,.... OOPS that one got blown off the track,.. get to finding another one quick...

If there are any "heros" in NASCAR, that distinct title belongs to NBC and the Dale Earnhardt Jr. Network.  As for Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon being considered "heros", they are always the first in my opinion to receive the non-confidence vote from the media.  I can assure you, if Johnson or Gordon were to throw a foreign object onto the track, you can bet NASCAR would be the first to penalize them taking points and fining them exhuberent amounts of money because of their association with the richest team in NASCAR HMS.  Earnhardt can't do anything wrong, so I wouldn't expect NASCAR to follow-up on anything where it concerns deframing the "Earnhardt" name. 

Johnson, Gordon and a few others have received many a penalty that was questionable by NASCAR.  These two specific drivers are definitely not the symbol of NASCAR heroism.

[Chris]

I'm gonna have to beg to differ with ya on that one....
Earnhardt, Gordon, and Johnson are GOOD for the TV ratings.  Anything thats good for TV ratings is good for Nascar as far as Brian is concerned...

When Gordon, and Jr missed the chase last season,.. TV viewers tuned out.  Love him or hate him, Gordon has many fans.

NOW as far as fines. I've watched the fines, infractions, etc VERY closely for the last 6+ years,.. looks to me like if anything HMS has at best broke even,.. if I had to pick sides, I'd day they have got away with some stuff when they SHOULD have been fined... so they are AHEAD of the game

THIS IS what looks like happened...
If you go back and look at the stats,.. MHS has a BAD habit of breaking the rules.  NOT an opinion,.. simply a fact.  They have had way WAY more penalties than any other team over the last several years. NOW, (no offense intended) but just because it sounds like this is your favorite team,..that don't mean they didn't DESERVE the penalties

IN the beginning, Nascar let some stuff that SHOULD have been penalized slide... as time wore on, and HMS kept breaking the rules, (and in worse ways) Nascar had to step in and start penalzing them to get their attention.
I guess HMS and the crew chiefs just don't get the message (or there is a standing order to just push the envelope and hope you get away with it from R Hendrick).  This year they pulled some dumb stunts and results in suspensions, increased fines, etc.  After 6+ years of repeated fines, increasing rules infractions, etc etc... HMS just keeps on doing it.
I think they have been LUCKY Knaus or someone else has NOT been suspended for the SEASON with all that has gone on. 

I think that Nascar bent over backwards to 'help' HMS and not penalize them for so long, or very harshly.... that HMS pushed the issue, and kept on breaking the rules, and threw it in Nascar face,.. I thnk they kinda got tired of it.  AT they VERY most, even now they are treated no WORSE than the other teams. (a lot of that is because Gordon and Johnson is their drivers and if they penalize them TOO heavily they penalize them right out of making the chase)
If you look around you'll find a post where I listed all the penalties,.. you will see where HMS has a BUNCH more than everyone else... and they "earned" them all.

[Cangal48]

I'm not going to debate this issue further, YES, I am a fan of the HMS team.  YES, Gordon and Johnson have received penalities, YES, I have read your list of penalty breakdowns, not only your list but other listings as well.  YES, it is a fact that I haven't been a fan of NASCAR (at least watching it on TV) for that long.  YES, I do like Gordon and Johnson and not afraid to admit my association with this winning team.  YES, I have read the penalty statistics, and YES, I know there are HMS detractors.  YES, I still plan on retaining my allegience GOOD, BAD OR UGLY to HMS. 

I am sorry if my allegience offends those anti HMS critics, it's obvious that the penalities against HMS hasn't silenced the detractors.  I can accept that.  I guess I shouldn't voice my opinion regarding HMS teammates, because I'm always being shot down by somebody.  I guess that's a Canadian thing.

[Chris]

Your welcome to voice your opinion here...
Just don't get offended if someone points out (like I did) the facts of the matter

Not sure I see too many HMS detractor here,.. maybe a couple,.. but they openly admit it, and tell you up front.
As for me,.. I haven't had a "favorite" for a couple years now,.. so I see things with a very different view than MOST people.  When you don't have a favorite driver or team... it don't skew your view with favortism or partiality.  Everything is all open minded and logical.

[flamehothead]

i'm sure most of you know that I am a Tony Stewart fan by the picture to your left. I was a Rusty Wallace fan since I started watching Nascar in 1988. I knew that I was going to have to find me another driver to pull for on race day, But I knew that was going to be tough after following Rusty for so long. The first time I saw Stewart show his attitude on national Television I became a fan. I thought here is a driver who is not afraid to say what he feels or show it for that matter. I will say that it was tough to be a Stewart fan in the begining because of his attitude. All I heard from Friends,Media and others was that he needs help or he is whining to much. I used to like Darrell Waltrip until he decided to try and become Stewarts counsler when in fact I think that DW needs to be sitting on a couch somewhere in Tenessee talking to his own Doctor. Hey CANGAL48! I will be the first to tell you that I am not a Gordon or a Johnson fan, But that doesn't mean that I won't have a discussion about them. Everyone here on The Frontstretch Forums are here to talk about racing or whatever it is you want to talk about. I will not nor have I seen anyone here just simply BASH a driver. Anytime you want to discuss Johnson or Gordon just give me a click. I will hear your side as long as you hear my side LOL . I will admit that for a person who hasn't been following Nascar very long you DO know what you are talking about . Thank's

[AfterShock]

Facts are Facts, ------- that's a fact.

However, facts can also be like statistics, .... easily manipulated.

"Facts" seem to indicate a team has chalked up more infractions than some of the other teams. In short, they got caught (more often). Why, or how they came to get caught might be another story all together.

IMO, just because a team is caught more often, doesn't necessarily indicate that team actually pushes the envelope more often than those who aren't "caught".
Selective seeing could come into the picture on a case by case basis.


But, I am curious though.
What exactly is a "Canadian Thing"?

Sounds just a tad offensive.
We're all NASCAR fans here.
We know no borders or boundries.

In the future, if anyone tries to "shoot down" another poster, .......
ol' AfterShock will open up an industrial strength can-o'-whup on 'em and 'shake 'em down.
AfterShock is pretty mellow most of the time,    .......... but,.... he can be a mean motor-scooter if he has to be. 

However, differences of opinion(s) are desirable. Makes for stimulating conversations.
Doncha know.

[paulfan]

When the caution came out at Atlanta at around the time Dale Jr needed it and then it flew!  Nascar hands out a printout to the people in the media center listing the cause of the caution as TBD (to be determined).  This is per Claire B Lang w/XM radio.  She said that it cracked them up.

[flamehothead]

I would have to admit that if that was the case then that would be hillarious. The bad part is that I could really see that happening. I wonder what Nascar gets in return for throwing a caution for someone? Sorry I just had to go there this is getting out of hand, It really is. Then I found out the commercial breakdown. The race was 214 minutes of total race time. The commercials were 75 minutes. So we get 139 minutes of total racing not counting cautions. THIS IS A JOKE!!!!