So, What's In Store for 2007?

[RapidRoy]

I am new to Frontstretch, thanks to the USA Today article, but I see that some of the topics I've seen on the Fox Sports blogs are listed here, as well.  So, what is your take on what 2007 holds in store for NASCAR, especially if Sir Brian keeps on going down the road he seems to have chosen?

Personally, I think that unless some major changes are made to the points system, the Chase, TV coverage and policing the races themselves, NASCAR is in for an even rougher year, next year.  Specifically, wins need to count for more points (case-in-point, Kasey Kahne); the Chase needs to either expand their 400 point cutoff, or expand it to include the top 12 or 15 drivers; TV coverage should be 1 channel, not 4 (FOX, NBC, TNN, FX); and, finally, abolish the gratuitous "debris" cautions for water bottles, gloves, foam padding, etc.  I mean, come on, three-fourths of the late-in-the-race debris cautions probably affected the outcomes of those races in some capacity or another, costing owners and drivers in points, postions and money.  Is that fair?  Until Jeff Burton actually called out NASCAR when Robby Gordon tossed his roll-bar padding out onto the track, it was almost a given that inside 30 laps to go, there was going to be at least 1, if not 2 "debris" cautions to bunch up the field and make it interesting.  That's one of the reasons I tuned out a lot of races this year.  I just knew that the outcome would be decided in the last 30 laps, so I would wait until about that time, flip the channel over to see who won, and then resume what I was doing.  Exciting?  Sometimes (i.e., Talladega).  Fair?  Ask Jeff Burton.

[falcon325]

Hey there, Stock Car Boy. 

Drivers causing cautions is certainly a problem.  In the long run, it may be self-policing.  Jeff Burton is gonna remember Robby Gordon's bonehead trick.  And the lucky dog rule prohibiting to use of the lucky dog by a driver who brings out a caution helps under certain circumstances.  A little. 

But the Powers That Be do need to take steps.  They can check cars for spare padding, driver's gloves, etc.  And they can punish people who throw them.  A black flag and a pulled scoring card works for me.

But if we're gonna talk debris cautions, I think the bigger problem is the NA$CAR Nazis throwing mystery cautions when people driving red cars with "8" on the them start to go a lap down. 

[Tyyrus]

Welcome Rapid Roy..ya the Cautions are pretty predictable..Eh ! Don't mind the chase format if those phantom cautions were obliteriated..Man ! I even felt the Lucky Dog served a purpose (fairness) prior
to the fake cautions..Baby ! Like the potential scoring change of awarding more points for wins.hope , there
is more coming down the pike !

[falcon325]

Question folks.  Should NA$CAR get rid of the Lucky Dog?

[RapidRoy]

Good question!  It was put into place because people used to race back to the flag in the event of a caution and not everybody would adhere to the "gentleman's agreement" of letting cars get their lap back if able on a caution.  That led to people like, say maybe, Kurt Busch , and a few others, trying extra hard to get that lap back, especially from those drivers who didn't feel like being gentlemanly on any given day .  The problem is, the "lucky dog" rule rewards everybody, when not everybody used to get their laps back.  I can still remember Earnhardt trying for 200-300 laps to get back on the lead lap; a lot of times he was successful, but sometimes not so much.  I wonder how many races Jimmy Johnson would have won or been in a position to win, had he not benefitted from the "lucky dog", much less the other drivers in the top ten.

I vote to do away with it.  Let them earn it back the hard way; that'll also make it more interesting in the middle of those long runs during the center part of races.  You know, those laps that Lil' E says are useless and pointless to run.

[Tyyrus]

 Hey , I don't mind the Rule only the orchestrated abuse of the Rule. In the longer Super Speedway Tracks
I team could have a tire go down and you were out of it

[falcon325]

I wonder how many races Jimmy Johnson would have won or been in a position to win, had he not benefitted from the "lucky dog", much less the other drivers in the top ten.

Hey Roy.

According to jayski, the answer to that question is “none.”

http://www.jayski.com/pages/luckydog06.htm

I’m not sure I want to do away with the Lucky Dog.  As you pointed out, with the old “race-back-to-the-flag” rule, there was a gentleman’s agreement that if the car falling a lap down would let the leader by, the leader would slow when the caution came out and let the lap-down car get a lap back.  That did lead to a few scary situations, particularly involving teammates, where the leader durned near stopped on the racetrack and other cars came screaming around at speed. 

But without the Lucky Dog, there are certain drivers--Robby Gordon and Ryan Newman spring to mind--who would wreck the leader to keep from going a lap down.  And, as Tyyrus pointed out, if your favorite driver cuts a tire or gets caught a lap down by a caution during green-flag pit stops, you might as well go mow the grass.

My solution would be a limit of one, maybe two per race and perhaps a limit for the season. 

[SMOKEN14]

But if we're gonna talk debris cautions, I think the bigger problem is the NA$CAR Nazis throwing mystery cautions when people driving red cars with "8" on the them start to go a lap down. 

I thought the 48 was the one nazcar was throwing the phony  caution flags for myself

[falcon325]

I thought the 48 was the one nazcar was throwing the phony  caution flags for myself

This may just be a matter of perception smoken, but can you give me some "for examples" of Johnson getting debris cautions?  It's happened with Lilly so many times that the reporters predicted the "TDB" caution at Atlanta.  And then, sure enough, it happened.  And BTW, I don't think Junior and his team have a thing to do with that.  I think it's just the suits trying to please the Red Army. 

I DO think the 8 team is running tricked up engines on restirctor plate tracks.  The DEI cars are about the only ones that can just pull out and pass without the draft.  As they say in the garage area:

Q: How do you get a car through tech inspection at a restrictor-plate track?

A: Paint it red and put an "8" on it.   

[SMOKEN14]

This may just be a matter of perception smoken, but can you give me some "for examples" of Johnson getting debris cautions?  It's happened with Lilly so many times that the reporters predicted the "TDB" caution at Atlanta.  And then, sure enough, it happened.  And BTW, I don't think Junior and his team have a thing to do with that.  I think it's just the suits trying to please the Red Army. 

I DO think the 8 team is running tricked up engines on restirctor plate tracks.  The DEI cars are about the only ones that can just pull out and pass without the draft.  As they say in the garage area:

Q: How do you get a car through tech inspection at a restrictor-plate track?

A: Paint it red and put an "8" on it.   

  To be honest i think nazcar favorers both the [8] and [48] teams I didn't miss a single race this year and your right the 8 was  the lucky one when a debris yellow came out  a few times but i also seen a few which benefited  the 48 a few times.. personally i agree nazcar has it's favorite drivers and cater to them

[Tyyrus]

     Yeh , like your comment on the Lucky Dog....there Falcon , limit the number available per race and
     also limit the number a team can utilize per year...great idea..Falcon..Man !

[flamehothead]

>>I DO think the 8 team is running tricked up engines on restirctor plate tracks.  The DEI cars are about the only ones that can just pull out and pass without the draft.  As they say in the garage area:<<

Come on falcon you can do better than that. The #8 team had 0 poles and 0 win's on Restrictor Plate Track's this year. If their CHEATING then they need to work on their CHEATING Program. I went back to 2003 and DEI has 5 Restirctor Plate win's and HMS has 7 Restrictor Plate win's. 2 of DEI's win's belong to M.Waltrip so that leaves Dale.Jr(or as you put it the #8 car)with 3 win's since 2003. That's not what I would call a STELLAR Performance or CHEATING for that matter. If anyone is CHEATING it would have to be the #24 Team with 4 win's. As a matter of fact I like it when J.Gordon win's at Talledega, I get to watch fan's throw PEPSI can's at his car. I am only joking I think it is STUPID to throw anything onto the track weather it be Before,During, or after a race. IMO those fan's that are caught should be BANNED from ANY and I mean ANY Nascar Sanctioned Race. I mean I wouldn't even let them go to their local Short Track.

[falcon325]

Now flame!  How important is it to sit on a pole at a restrictor plate track?

I mentioned the story in that Cheatin' book by Tom Jensen of ol' DW and Hammond winning the 1985 Winston in a car that suddenly sprouted wings and flat-out flew.  DW was trailing Harry Gant by three seconds late in the race and ran Harry down.  Then Darrell's engine blew up just as he took the checkered flag, effectively preventing any post race inspection.  The point is DW was strokin' for the first parts of the race, not showing his tricked out engine until he needed it.  Junior would be pretty stupid to go out an sit on the pole at every restrictor race. 

It's true that DEI hasn't been dominant lately.  Having fifty extra horses doesn't gaurantee a win.  You still have to drive the car and catch some breaks (like not having knucklehead teammates bump-drafting on the final lap).  But I still say that over the past five or six years, the DEI cars are the ONLY cars that can just pull out and pass without drafting help at the restrictor plate tracks.  Verrryyy suspicious!

[flamehothead]

Now falcon! It doesn't matter if it's important or not to win a pole. If you have "Fifty Extra Horsepower" your gonna win the pole. That's my point. I don't think that DEI can ADD 50 Horses with the turn of a wrench, They may be good but not that good. I'm sure Jr could play with the throttle as he cruises around the track but even then it would be too hard to judge how fast your going. If you have a terrible qualifying,practice, and Happy Hour and then you can pull out and pass with ease then that would be a little suspicious, Don't you think?

As for DW I didn't know that he was penalized for having a Tricked Out Engine.

I remember a driver won around 13 or 14 races in 2001 I think it was. Well look at that it was J.Gordon and you want to talk about suspicious. THAT'S SUSPICIOUS!!!

>>It's true that DEI hasn't been dominant lately. <<
Lately? I went back to 2003.


OK here is a new stat that should tell all.
J.Gordons first Plate Win July 1995.He has won 10 Plate Races in 11 Seasons.
D.Earnhardt.Jr first Plate Win July 2001. He has won 7 Plate Races in 6 Seasons.

This tells me that both team's are pretty equal when it comes to Plate Races.

I still DO NOT see what being able to pull out and pass has to do with anything. Actually it doesn't mean SQUAT unless you CAPITOLIZE on it and that I have not seen the #8 team do. And IF a team is CHEATING and the only gain that they are having is being able to pull out and pass by yourself, Then I don't see them doing it for five or six years. I would think they would start looking elsewhere to CHEAT.

OH one more thing falcon. If you remember right J.Gordon used to Nascars Golden Boy so if anyone has cheated then it would have been the #24 team.

[Tyyrus]

Gents ...Horsepower is quite important...every 1 HP = 2-3 MPH. on 1.5 mile track....then theres the term used
quite often by the drivers in drafting terminology "Sucking Up" describing how well their care reacts to the car directly ahead in traffic...critical in Super Speedways like Daytona , Taledega & Pocanno . In closing both Dei and Hendricks are well known for their expertize within Horsepower & Aerodynamics. Although they both have
seen the competition close up the gap of late..Eh !