Anyone Seen The Busch Drivers?????

[flamehothead]

>>>It's terrible for the series," said Dale Earnhardt Jr., a two-time Busch Series champion who ran five Busch events this season. "At this rate, maybe in five or 10 years, the entire series is full of Cup regulars and it ends up becoming a novelty race where people come see us goof off a little bit before the big deal on Sunday."<<<

I found this article and thought everyone might find it interesting.

I used to not have a problem with the Cup drivers racing on Saturday but now I think it has gotten out of hand just a bit. When it was time to hand out the award's 1-8 were all Cup drivers and you have to admit, That is pretty bad. I thought it would be interesting to look at the point's without the Cup drivers in it.

This is how the Top 10 would have looked.
1. Paul Menard
2. Johnny Sauter
3. Andretti
4. Leffler
5. Wood
6. A.Lewis
7. Compton
8. Kluever
9. R.Smith
10. Jay Sauter


There were a few Cup drivers between these drivers so in the end O'Quinn finished 21'st which is not right IMO. If I was Johnny Sauter I would be a little bummed out knowing that if their were no cup drivers running in the Busch series then he would have been the Champion. I have heard drivers like D.Green say that he enjoy's racing against the Cup drivers because it makes him a better driver. I'm not sure that he would feel that way if he finished in 2nd place in point's behind a cup driver. I think Nascar should put some sort of a cap on how many races a cup driver can run or even tell the drivers that they can run x amount of races and let them pick the one's that they want to run. I'm not sure why the cup guy's run the Busch series anyway. It's not like they need more practice, Money, Or bragging right's they run the cup series that should be enough to brag about. I'm not sure what if anything can be done, But something really need's to be done IMO.

[AfterShock]

Ya had me fooled for a minute there Flame.

At first I thought you were talkin' about Deputy Kirt Busch and Kyle the Kid.
Imagine my surprise?! 

Earp!
'Scuse me.

I've heard it sung that there is no Arizona.
Could that be true?

Next thing ya know, I'll be hearin' there ain't no Holliday, Doc.

[Chris]

I agree FHH
Nascar and the Tracks "claim" that the CUP drivers in the BGN race sell extra tickets...
I can see that to a point,...
But on the other hand,... when I go to the races,.. I don't REALLY want to see most of the same drivers race on Saturday I am going to see race on Sunday.

The BGN drivers have about the SAME expenses the CUP drivers have.. equipment, motors, crews, testing, motels, travel (that all cost the same no matter who you are)
SO for the CUP teams to come in and have all the top CUP teams take all the top pay check (because they have more experience, and better technology week after week, is just wrong.
It's no wonder that BGN shops are either 1) closing up right and left or 2) just biting the bullet and trying to make the move right on up into CUP.  AT least if they make the field and finish LAST it is almost as much as if they had WON the BGN race.

The BGN series was originally set up to be a stepping stone from a lower series to the CUP series.  It was a transition for drivers that was 'too good' to run lower divisions,.. but not quite good enough to compete with the CUP teams.  SO it was never intended for the CUP drivers to run in.... maybe when they got old,.. were losing their skills, and on their way out.  But NOT while they were still on the top of their game.  It was a series unto itself.

Now,   some say 'there is no advantage for a CUP driver to run in the BGN race,... they don't learn anything,... the cars are too much different,.. etc"
I say horse hocky.
If there were no "advantage".. then teams would just be "throwing money away" to be racing in the series.  Racing is WAY to expensive to just run a race and NOT learn anything from it,... so thats a lot of bull.  Thats all just lip service, and they downplay it so Nascar won't implement any rules to keep CUP teams out or impose limits.
There's NO TELLING what good 'local' drivers (like a Denny Hamlin, etc etc) and just waiting in the wings to get a shot at showing their talents in the BGN series... but can't because so many CUP teams run on a regular basis and take all the spots.
I'd limit the CUP teams to (at the most) 6 spots per race.  Throw out the top 30 lock in points (you know some of the CUP teams are gonna be locked in the points, and would get in the race that way.... so lock in the top 30 BGN teams (or none at all).
Qualify everyone and the FASTEST 6 CUP teams get to race... the rest would be BGN teams - if you are a full time CUP driver you fall into the first group.
That would open it up so new teams could get back in the sport, and new driver could begin to be the 'feeder system for the CUP series.
Also I'd have the same rules for the CTS division

[Tyyrus]

I think what FHH stated would be the fairest.. just put a fixed amount of Races that a Regular Cup Driver or
Team can compete within Busch Series ! I remember Mark with the Winne-Dixie Car , normally only ran 7
Races in Busch and normally only at combined Events...to learn how the Track was responding to his car
and weather conditions , which to an extent could carry over to the Cup Series. I agree that once upon a
Time Cup Regulars helped the Busch Series..but not with the staggering numbers that are now entering and
running the entire season...just not fair to the Busch Regulars..and small teams..Man !

[Chris]

well...
I can see what FHH is saying (let the teams run 6 races per year)
Where I see a promblem with that is they would all run the "big money" events and suck up all the good money from all the high paying events (ie like Daytona, etc)
Might have 20 or 25 (or more) or the CUP regulars taking up spots, and walking away with the big money
At least if you limit it to six total "CUP" teams per race,.. you know that only six "big" paychecks will go to the CUP regulars.

[flamehothead]

I did a little more investigating and found a few more stat's that may interest ya'll.

In 2005 out of 35 Busch races only 8 Busch regular's won.

In 2006 out of the same 35 races there were only 2 Busch regular's to win a race.

I also looked at the Money won and I can see why the Busch Drivers/Owners are getting upset.

I picked California for this Example. Granted I know the certain drivers make more money than others but I just wanted to show the difference in Money Winning's. I picked the Race winner and then went to the first Busch Series regular in the field.
 
Kasey Kahne won the race and his winning's were: $90,825
Paul Menard was the first Busch regular and his winning's were: $55,000

I was also thinking about what Chris said about Motel's and other expences. Well if you look at the winnings above you'll notice that there is a $35,825 difference. That would pay for alot of expences if you ask me.   

I also used California for this example. Another thing is how about the guy that had to go home because he had a DNQ. He might have made the race if there wasn't 16 Cup regulars starting the race. As a matter a fact I just looked and their was only 1 DNQ and that was Derrike Cope. The least amount of money won was $20,000 so D.Cope would have won that money but he didn't even get the chance. The most DNQ's at one race is Homestead with 9 and there were 7 Cup drivers just in the top 10. What I'm trying to say is that their are alot of teams that could use that money or at least need it more than Harvick or Roush need's it. I think in the future the Busch series will be like The All-Star race but it will be evry weekend. And I agree with Chris about going to a Busch race and seeing Cup drivers, That's not why I go to a Busch race. The last Busch race I went to was at Kentucky Speedway in 2003 I believe and that wasn't too bad because their was no Cup race at the same track. The best Busch race that I ever went to was at Bristol in 1993. The only Cup driver in the race that I can remember was M.Martin and but back then they didn't have this problem. The strange thing about is that I remember Elliott Sadler was going to attempt to run the Cup race the following night. If Nascar doesn't step up and do something about this now then the problem is only going to get ALOT worse.

[Chris]

I agree 100%
Also we have to lokks a litte further than just "how many BGN guys missed the race"

IMO I think we kinda think about how many teams stayed home, or didn't even BOTHER to field a team this season just BECAUSE there were so many CUP drivers showing up and taking up spots in the BGN fields every week.

Thats kinda what i was eluding to about driving that are out there,... and not getting a chance to show case their talent....

[Checkeredflag]

I'm going to stick my neck out here, and say this...

Fans are trying to "fix" something and come up with a solution to something that the owners don't think there's a problem with.  In some ways, it's really not our business to decide what's best for the Busch series - it's up to the France family to decide if there's a problem, and how to fix it if they want to. 

When you look at limiting the participation of Cup drivers, you're getting into areas of the law that you don't want to get into.  And it's not really the Cup drivers who are the problem, it's the Cup owners who want their drivers in those cars.  What young competitive racer is going to say "no thank you" to an offer of a ride with no pressure and a better than average chance of winning? 

So, if there is a problem, and you don't want the Cup organizations running all those cars, there's a really easy fix for it.  When an owner applies for a number, either issue him that number with a "full time" or "part time" license to run it.  If it's full time, he agrees to field the car in 35 events, and can use 1 or 35 different drivers. 

But, if it's part time, limit the license to "X" amount of events, maybe 10.  And if he wants to add more events to that license, then he has to add 1 stand alone event for every 2 companion races.  That will force them to either get sponsorship for an up and coming driver for at least a few races.  If you tie the number of part time licenses to the number of full time licenses he has in the series, you can limit practices like what Roush does.

[Chris]

I know what you are saying CF,.. and I don't disagree with it...

I THINK the MAIN problem is THIS...
The OWNERS want to keep running the BGN series because it does help the drivers and teams learn how the CUP cars run on Sunday...
NASCAR wants the CUP cars to run the BGN races because it helps ticket sales...
SO we got a problem, that no one (except up and coming drivers) really want to fix

All I can say is we'll just have to wait until 2008 or 2009 when the CoT is used FULL TIME,.. then by that time if the CoT is NOT used in the BGN series the CUP drivers will NOT care about running in the BGN series because the cars will be WAY too different for the teams to glean any info to help them on Sunday.  From what I am hearing they are rumors they may even be running Mustangs, etc by that time in the BGN series.
In any event by the time the CoT is being run full time in the CUP series,.... the CUP teams won't learn anything in the BGN races,.. and maybe the BGN drivers, and maybe some new BGN teams can get active in it again, and it can return to "normal"

[AfterShock]

Chris,

I hear "normal" is just a setting on a washing machine. 

[flamehothead]

I agree 110% with that chris...

That IS the only reason that the Cup drivers even run the Busch series. The only thing that I don't quite understand is why some of the Cup drivers go to another state to run a Busch race and sometimes the Cup series doesn't even run at those tracks. That could have been when a couple of them were actually running for point's and didn't want to miss a race.

Well one thing is for sure, They are not running the Busch series for the Money,Point's, Or heck they may not even want to win LMAO. (I'm Kidding)

[nascarbabe2U]

Ya know called me a blonde, that's fine, but I just don't get it. In my opinion and maybe I just don't have enough info but other than a little practice why on earth would a driver do both a Busch Race and a Cup Race. And I agree Flamers.....what's with the racing two races in one weekend at two differnent tracks, sometimes even in two different states.....seems to me that's burnin the candle at both ends. 

[falcon325]

Chris,

I hear "normal" is just a setting on a washing machine. 

ROTFLMAO.

OK.  I'm writin' THAT one down.

[Chris]

The only thing that I don't quite understand is why some of the Cup drivers go to another state to run a Busch race and sometimes the Cup series doesn't even run at those tracks

Well actually thats not that hard to explain...
Much of this is all tied up early in the season when sponsorships is drawn up.
If you will remember this year Harvick already had the BGN championship wrapped up and had no reason to go and run at (I think) Memphis the same weekend the BGN run at Atlanta.  He was pretty much committed to go anyway because of sponsorship committments.
Who know back in January he would have a 700+ point lead..??

Also,.. now if you look at the schedule,... you will be that large majority of the races have the BGN series as the companion event to the CUP races.  SO it is just natural to run the BGN race to get additional info to get the CUP car...
By the time the first "split" race comes up (where the two series race at different tracks on the same weekend) it is WAY late in the season.  Team owners can see how they are standing,.. and if they want to send their drivers to the race (providing they are NOT locked in by sponsorship committments)

NOW you gotta remember,... the BIG MONEY for the race series (both BGN and CUP) is paid out with the OWNERS points... not the drivers points.
SO if you look back a couple years ago (2003) when RCR had Harvick and (someone I forget who) share a ride all season long in the BGN series, and RCR won the BGN series OWNER points,... but Brian Vickers won the DRIVERS Championship.
When the money was paid out,... Childress got the BULK of the money.  Nascar don't show how the money is distributed unless you dig for it,.. they just show the pay-out... and since the BGN isn't as high profile as the CUP series,.. not many people noticed it.  But the majority of the money is pointed toward the owner points.

I know for the majority of the folks that watch the CUP banquet,.. when the announce that "big payout" that the driver gets,.. that includes the driver and owner points earnings...

[Chris]

Hey Falcon,... I see you got your "new" picture up...
looking good you cowboy you....

giddy up