The Frontstretch: Matt McLaughlin's Thinkin' Out Loud: Talladega Fall Race Recap by Matt McLaughlin -- Monday November 2, 2009

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Matt McLaughlin's Thinkin' Out Loud: Talladega Fall Race Recap

Matt McLaughlin · Monday November 2, 2009


The Key Moment: When the stuff hit the fan Jamie McMurray was at the front of the pack, seemingly as surprised to be there as anyone was to see him take the checkers.

In a Nutshell: 183 laps of tedium followed by five laps of incomprehensible, stomach churning insanity posing as some facsimile of a race. Terrible, simply terrible. Utterly so, without any redeeming social value.

Dramatic Moment: A long, long pause waiting to get word on Ryan Newman’s condition after his terrible tumble. At the plate tracks I usually sit and wait to watch to see if the rotors start turning on the Med-evac helicopter after an incident. If they don’t, everyone is OK. If they do, someone is not. If they start turning then stop, the worst possible outcome has occurred. Welcome to Talladega, future home of the “Worst Possible Outcome 500.” Your ticket to the race comes with a complimentary toe-tag.

What They’ll Be Talking About Around the Water Cooler This Week

Kudos to Ryan Newman for his comment on those rare ghoulish fans who enjoy seeing big wrecks. “If this is what you’re here to see, go home. You don’t belong here.”

Style points to Jeff Gordon as well for his abnormally dry and ironic comments, “At least we were able to run out of gas on time [so] we could get to the pits, get back out on the track and destroy our car.”

OK, let’s man up and look at this mess. There have been race formats at the plate tracks that have bored the fans to tears before. But best as I can recall, this is the first time I’ve ever heard drivers out there running in a huge single file procession admitting they were bored. If nothing else, Sunday’s race affirmed something for me: Anytime you think NASCAR officials have screwed (and that’s not my first choice of verbs) up so badly they couldn’t get worse, they once again manage to prove me wrong. What a frickin’ (also not my first choice in modifiers) disaster.

It surely did seem like most of the drivers didn’t think much of Sunday’s race or the rules change announced late Sunday morning. As I see it, two hours after a race when they still can’t decide who the top 10 finishers were, it wasn’t a race, it was a travesty.

Given the number of empty “premium” seats in the upper grandstands, why not move all the fans up top and let them see the race in first class rather than down in coach where the Cup cars could land after wrecks?

It’s almost as if they just want to become a parody of their own bloated selves. How can NASCAR institute a major rules change (regarding bump drafting) less than two hours before the race? Did they forget that they’d be running the plates at Talladega until Sunday morning?

Someone was mentioning to me that tickets to Major League Ball games were way down this year, way down as in almost in NASCAR territory for 2009. Interestingly enough, game two of the World Series drew 19 million viewers as opposed to about a quarter that many who tuned into Chase race number six last week at Martinsville. This is a World Series that passionately interests mostly fans who live within a 50 mile radius of exit 7S of the Jersey Turnpike (the mark of delineation between Yankee and Phillies fans). Pass me a cigarette, I think there’s another one in the suitcase…counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike…. You know, if the Chase was supposed to increase interest in casual fans once the NFL season began and the Boys of Summer began their annual October drive to the Series, it may be the biggest single marketing disaster since New Coke.

Apparently they held another closed door town meeting (how’s that for an oxymoron?) for the sport’s participants this week and announced that come 2011, they’ll tweak the lower half of the Car of Tomorrow to try to improve racing. Yawn. And they blew up the Chicken Man in Philly last night, and they blew up his house too…. I guess we’re just going to write off the 2010 Cup season too rather than make the necessary changes next year? Well everything dies, Baby, that’s a fact, but maybe everything that dies, someday comes back? Maybe someday?

Well Boy Howdy, that’s going to leave a bruise! Dover Downs Entertainment announced this week that they’re shuttering the Memphis Motorsports Park, which has been hosting Busch/Nationwide and Truck series races since 1998 and has in fact hosted some pretty good racing in the intervening years. Apparently in this economy, given the diminished level of interest in NASCAR racing, the business model where a small track can survive with a single Nationwide and Truck race a season is no longer operable, which means a lot of other tracks are also hanging on by the skin of their teeth. MMP was constructed in the era where building a race track seemed a license to steal money and unwary investors could be drawn in with a nod, a whisper and wink that someday the facility would host a Cup event and then the real money would be trucked in on tri-axles. Only getting a Cup date added to a track has proven to be a real tough job for any organization other than the ISC, the International Speedway Corporation, the same fine folks who once fired my ass. Homestead-Miami was having no luck getting a Cup date until the ISC bought the joint at fire sale prices and all of a sudden the track got the season finale Cup date. California and Phoenix were struggling to get by with their one Cup date a season until the ISC bought both tracks and, what are the odds? NASCAR decided to award both tracks a second date. The ISC, which of course has no relation to NASCAR which awards race dates other than the fact they are headquartered in the same building, have the same folks answering the phones and are run (ineptly) by the same family, just seems to be real lucky when it comes to buying race tracks that are about to be awarded Cup dates.

That leaves me scratching my head wondering who the heck is going to buy a race track facility that has no major league sanctioned race dates attached to it? Apparently Memphis is available at fire sale prices below ten million bucks, certainly a fraction of what was spent to build it. I doubt a driving school could carry the note. It might be a nice place to host a classic car flea market like Carlisle with all that parking down there, but that only consumes a few weekends a year. If a true car guy were to hit the Powerball lottery for $200 million he might enclose the garage stalls to house his collection of muscle and exotic car and run them around the oval and up and down the drag strip, but I don’t know of any car guys who have won the Powerball lately. Short of Elvis returning from the dead and booking a month long series of concerts at MMP I have no idea how the place can be saved.

OK, so Steve Addington has taken Kyle Busch from a rough around the edges occasional contender to a threat to win any week his mercurial driver doesn’t meltdown and as his reward he’s given a pink slip? I guess among crew chiefs they all vie to sit atop the box of one of the sport’s big names. That earns you the big bucks, gets your mug on TV and earns you rock star treatment. But on the other hand, you have to know if things stop working out it’s not going to be the driver that gets the ax. Good luck to this Dave Rogers fellow, Kyle Busch’s new crew chief. He’ll know he’s doing his job well when the majority of fans are booing and tossing stuff onto the track after a race. He’ll know he’s not doing such a great job when he gets fired. Yeah, I’m sort of glad I do what I do. At least the people who hate it do so quietly in the comments section. If you’re going to toss a beer can at me, make sure it’s full and cold and in the strike zone.

Ahh, memories. Here are Steve Addington and Kyle Busch enjoying happier times. The once dynamic duo is now no more after Addington was replaced as Busch’s crew chief this week.

Is Talladega the last track still to have the pre-race flyover in the “missing man” formation in honor of Dale Earnhardt, or did a F-15 pilot just get lost on the way to the track?

Is this supposed to be automobile racing or a real noisy game of Simon Says? When the caution flag flies and four cars are right at the “green light/red light” device at the entrance to pit road still carrying a legal 55 MPH, how are they all supposed to swerve back on to the track in an instant? At very least let them continue down pit road without stopping without drawing a penalty.

Why was A.J. Allmendinger given a breathalyzer test prior to practice at Talladega on Friday? It would seem being willing to race at Talladega is presumptive proof that a driver is under the influence of something clouding his judgment.

“Miccosukee.” There, I did it without cheating. One less mountain left to climb.

There have been some badly ill-considered moments in NASCAR broadcasting history. Few of them were as badly conceived, darkly disturbing, or clearly hallucinogenic-ally inspired as the Batman themed pre-race show prior to Saturday’s truck series race. If only that sort of effort, talent and pre-production had been devoted to something useful, SPEED might really have been onto something other than ensuring Krista Voda can never show her face in public without shame again. Two words Ms. Voda, “Thigh-master.”

The Hindenburg Award For Foul Fortune

Mark Martin said he was going to run Talladega this weekend like there was no possible way he could be in a wreck. He ran like that too for 187 laps, but unfortunately the race was 188 laps long. Once again Martin watches his dreams of a Cup title go up in smoke, this time from the unique angle of an upside down race car. I think maybe Martin needed a little more thorough examination in the infield care center. He surely did sound like he had a bad concussion in his post-race comments.

Jeff Gordon ran out of gas and returned to the track just in time to find himself in the big wreck. He also watched his last gasps at a title this season riding off into the sunset.

Joe Nemechek wasn’t even able to park his car fast enough to avoid the first wreck.

At least Denny Hamlin blew (another) engine and he was able to hit the exits early in the Great Alabama Getaway.

Ryan Newman seemed to be saving his stuff for the end of the race when he suddenly found his stuff scattered the length of the straightaway and upside down at that.

The “Seven Come Fore Eleven” Award For Fine Fortune

Apparently Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus really have this Talladega mess figured out at last. They cruised around at the rear of the field most of the afternoon, charged up front just slowly enough to avoid the “Big One” and then were ahead of the “Even Bigger One” there at the end. And they didn’t run out of gas.

Jamie McMurray? No, seriously, how many of you even realized Jamie McMurray was still in a Cup car?

A penalty for a tire violation in the pits seemed to doom Greg Biffle’s chances at a solid finish but a late race rally saw the No. 16 car drive to a fourth place finish.

Worth Noting

  • OK, let’s get it out there in the open. I have a deadline to meet. Because of the last lap carnage there’s no certain way to say who finished where yet. The finishing order seems to be changing each time I refresh my computer because of the last lap chaos. Let’s put it this way: NASCAR is so unsure who finished where that they ain’t even writing the finishing order in pencil, they’re using an Etch-a-Sketch. But eventually I just have to walk out there on the high wire and do what I do, cause if I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight.
  • Jamie McMurray won a Cup race for the first time since 7-7-07. A Ford won a Cup race for the first time since Fontana, the second event of the 2009 Cup season.
  • Joey Logano’s third place finish was the second best of his Cup career.
  • Kasey Kahne’s second place finish was his best since he won at Atlanta.
  • Greg Biffle’s fourth place finish returned him to the top 10 for the first time in four races.
  • Jeff Burton (fifth) enjoyed his first top 10 result since the first Pocono race and his first top 5 since Las Vegas.
  • Michael Waltrip’s sixth place finish was the best of his 2009 Cup campaign. And he managed to do so without running over any motorcyclists this week!
  • Elliott Sadler’s seventh place finish was his best since the Daytona 500. Have you driven a Ford, lately?
  • Jimmie Johnson (eighth) missed the top 5 in a Chase race for just the second time this season. Boom-boom-boom-boom…..out go the lights.
  • Brad Kesolowski (ninth) scored his fourth top 10 finish in twelve Cup starts this season. And nobody had to be hospitalized as a result this weekend. Is this a great country or what?
  • Dale Earnhardt Jr. (tenth) scored his best result since Bristol.
  • Robert Richardson Jr. finished 18th. Wait a second, who?
  • Jeff Gordon’s 22nd place finish was his worst since Bristol.
  • The top 10 finishers at Talladega drove four Chevys, three Fords, two Toyotas and a Dodge. The narrator of “American Pie” drove a Chevy to the levy, but the levy was dry. Also this week Chevy announced they are dumping the Impala SS model. Draw your own conclusions.

What’s the Points?

Ut-oh. Under the old points system, given the current results of the race (Johnson eighth and Stewart 35th), Johnson would have taken over the points lead from Tony and would now be leading the standings by four points with three races left to go. That would have created the sort of excitement the artificially contrived Chase points system was supposed to provide but without the smoke (no pun intended) and mirrors.

As it is, put out the fires, call in the dogs, and finish up those roadies while they’re cold. It’s over. Jimmie Johnson is the 2009 Cup champion. For the record Johnson is now over 180 points ahead of second place Mark Martin. Jeff Gordon remains third in the standings a further 14 points behind Martin.

Juan Pablo Monotoya wrested the fourth points position from Tony Stewart.

Greg Biffle took over the seventh points position relegating Ryan Newman back to eighth. Fortunately the number eight looks the same whether you’re on your feet or on your head.

Kasey Kahne was Sunday’s big points winner advancing two spots to ninth in the standings. Denny Hamlin fell two spots to 11th.

Overall Rating (On a scale of one to six beer cans with one being a stinker and a six pack an instant classic) Imagine you order a cold three buck draft beer. But the bartender returns with twelve ounces of warm pus, mule piss, and the cancerous drippings from some sort of testicular tumor then announces the price is actually six bucks, your car is on fire in the parking lot and your girlfriend has left you for Michael Bolton. That’s Talladega.

Next Up: The Cup series, eyes blackened, lips bleeding, knuckles dragging the ground in sheer exhaustion, horror and shame, heads off to the antepenultimate race at Texas next weekend. If you give a crap please post a message below why so we can get the doctors to up your dosage.

Contact Matt McLaughlin

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11/02/2009 01:56 AM

So, with such a points runaway, will there be points system changes next year to prevent someone from locking up the title with 2 or 3 races left?

I mean, that’s why we have the chase in the first place, isn’t it?

11/02/2009 03:41 AM

Does everyone believe that Newman hit hard enough on his roof to warrant the roll cage getting that crushed?

I know he took a pretty good tumbled, but the first time he landed on his roof, he luckily landed pretty much hood on hood with Harvick, thus softening the blow. He then tumbled and his roof took another hit, and obviously ended up upside down. But the wreck just didn’t seem like he hit hard enough to crush a roll cage like that, especially a CoT roll cage.

Considering he ended up with the roll cage against his helmet, it is good thing that this didn’t happen to a taller driver, like Waltrip.

Do the cars still carry the black boxes to measure the G forces? If so, I would be really curious to see how many Gs it took to crush the cage like that. And no matter what, if I was driving one of those cars, I definitely would install a couple more vertical supports to keep the roof from getting caved in so much. It was also built by Hendrick, so I don’t think there was any issue with the quality of it. It also makes you wonder if they have lightened on purpose in order to keep the weight lower. I actually don’t ever recall seeing a pre-CoT car left with such a small window opening.

Like I said, maybe it is just me, but the wreck didn’t seem to warrant that amount of damage to areas that are designed not crush, as opposed to the non-cockpit areas that are made to crush in order to absorb energy.

Maybe it is just the fact that I am 6’5” that makes me a lot more worried about this. I know after doing some sand dunes off roading as a passenger in my friends Wrangler, I noticed that my head was level with the top of the roll cage. Which meant that if it rolled, I could easily hit my head, and thus ended me ever off roading in Wranglers again.

11/02/2009 05:17 AM

change 1) No restrictor plate racing in the chase

change 2) Reset the points at Homestead too. What’s the difference, they drop the yellow flag to bunch the field at the end of a race so this should be old hat to NASCAR.

11/02/2009 06:32 AM


i agree. i read a couple of articles just now praising this COT and how great it was yesterday. i was puzzled because like you i was shocked that the car took such a beating. we have weatched the previous generations of cars take timbles far worse than newman’s and sustain less damage.

Bill B
11/02/2009 07:11 AM

I love a parade…(yawn).

Watch the ratings plummet these last three races.

Wake me up when February is here.

Dans Mom
11/02/2009 07:12 AM

Mark Martins championship hopes went up in smoke when he plowed into JPM at Charlotte. And that was his own doing. By the last lap at Talladega he already had NO SHOT at winning the title.

Carl D.
11/02/2009 07:28 AM

Glad the season is over and I can get back to some exciting Sunday afternoon activities. Next Sunday… painting the front porch.

Kudos to Jamie McMurray. I know there’s absolutely no evidence to back this comment up, but for some reason I’ve always thought he was better than his record shows at Roush. I wish him well wherever he ends up in 2010.

Despite the fact that the comment wasn’t the least bit funny, I cracked up when the crew chief (Grubb?) was caught on the radio saying they were selling No-doz at the concession stands.

Done… chat with y’all next year…. maybe.

Joey Wilson
11/02/2009 07:29 AM

If I’m Newman, I’m phissed to high heaven for how long it took 20 people to get his car turned right side up. That was a long five minutes. Apparently, he wasn’t happy about it. Anyone know what he said on the radio that we didn’t hear on TV?

11/02/2009 07:38 AM

Once again restrictor plate racing proves everything that’s wrong with NASCAR.

1. The so-called “Champion” drove around in 30th position for the majority of the race.

2. His three main rivals for the championship drive their asses off at the front.

3. With five laps to go, there’s a huge wreck, and half the field runs out of fuel under caution and has to pit. Suddenly, the champ is 15th, having done nothing.

4. With one to go, a wreck takes out his two main championship rivals, through absolutely no fault of their own, on a STRAIGHTAWAY. Suddenly, Johnson is 6th, having done nothing.

5. A guy who has likely lost his ride for next season, who has gotten NOTHING done all season, wins the race. (Not that I have anything against Jamie.)

THIS IS NOT RACING. This is a joke. A damn joke. Just like Newman and Martin said, I’m sure the idiotic fans who actually want to see this crap got a good show. The rest of us are disgusted.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 07:55 AM

Just how STOOPID is NA$CRAP?

All you had to do was watch the “DEGA AFFAIR”!

First, congrats to Newman, 1st for escaping that mess (by the way, no thanks to the POS, that’s what caused the wreck in the first place), and 2nd for calling out NA$CRAP, once again, for knowing what they know, they being NA$CRAP, they still put cars on the track that will indeed kill someone one day!

But lets look at the entire situation re: the POS! IF?? BIG IF?, the POS is so safe, and I am talking particularly at DEGA!, then why do they continue to schedule TRUCK RACES there? See my point?


After all, they develop the very same speeds (running in the pack mentality) that the CUP cars do on Sunday!

Again a matter of “consistency”! Oops, sorry, we are discussing King Brian’s organization, pardon me for my mental lapse! (and pardon King Brian for his mental lapses, which however are proving to be permanent).

And changing the rules 2 hours befrore the race?

I thought NA$CRAP only had one (1) rule: “ACTIONS DETRIMENTAL TO STOCK CAR RACING”? You mean they now have TWO (2) rules?

How surprising!

And the roll cage of this SUPER CAR crushing down on top of Newman?

And the length of time it actually took safety crews to reach Newman?

And it is called ‘racing”, when a driver (the 48) merely rides along in last place for almost ALL the race, yet in a couple of laps finishes 6th?

And with NA$CRAP always stating just how good their “scoring loops” are at keeping track of where the cars at at, they don’t have a clue on who finished where?

My point being if they can penalize a driver for say “speeding on pit road”, by what, .06MPH, but they cannot decided who finished where? Hours after the race?

And getting back to the bump drafting bit, hasn’t it ALWAYS been a rule that you cannot bump draft in the corners?

Why is everyone upset because they once again tried to apply this concept?

Oh, sorry, I know the answer, the drivers got mixed up on who is “allowed” to bump draft in the corners, and who is not!

More NA$CRAP “rules interpretation”, driver by driver!

As I said last week, I was hoping for the REALLY BIG ONE! But I will have to settle for the REALLY FRIGHTENING ONE!

11/02/2009 07:56 AM

As Tony said in his radio earlier in the race, he wasn’t going to do anything until the last 30 laps and in the meantime, his crew chief went looking for NoDoz. Taking this cue, I took a nap and set the Tivo for the last 30 laps.

Ryan’s horror ride was not fun at all. For all the talk of a safe car, he looked worse for the wear after they cut him out.

This Chase has sucked so bad, it’s not even funny. Brain Farce is ruining the sport faster faster than he can award Johnson chase (rather than Championship) tropies.

Thanks, Tony, for a great year and a good start for SHR, but the Steelers are 5-2…gotta go.

Mr Bill
11/02/2009 07:57 AM

Racing is a game of skill and team work. The Talladaga race was plan and simple luck. That is why many drivers have their first or only victory at Talladaga. I don’t think Jamie’s win at Talladaga will help him find a sponser or increase his worth on the market because people know this win was a one time shot that will not be repeated on a consistent bases. Obama Motors has killed the SS Impala, NASCAR has killed stock car racing, M. Jackson is dead but made over 100 million this past weekend. Does any thing seem right any more?

11/02/2009 08:07 AM

dan’s mom. you have to be the absolute biggest dope on this whole site.

11/02/2009 08:16 AM

Boy, the Chase gets even more stupid-looking by the day, doesn’t it?

Of course, 75% of us said it was a stupid idea from the start, and we kept saying it until NASCAR stopped asking and just insisted everyone loves it. I guess like everyone else, Brian France thinks NASCAR’s audience is a bunch of idiot rednecks too.

I love that Jimmie is 180 points ahead and would be four ahead without the Chase. There is no more denying that the Chase is a smacked-ass idea.

New Coke indeed. And with the same results.

11/02/2009 08:18 AM

i hate plate racing…period.

hated it years ago, really hated it in 2001. i’m glad ryan is ok. i can’t imagine hanging upside down and no one is coming to help get me out of that car. not sure if martin was more irritated cause of the wreck he was involved in or the fact that the points gain he and gordon made during most of the day went out the window from the 48 team riding around and being lucky cause half the field got wrecked out before other race ended.

i cannot imagine anyone in their right frame of mind enjoying the type of race that was ran yesterday. most racing fans i know don’t enjoy the wrecks. sure we don’t want follow-the leader racing, but i knew when they made the plate smaller it would bunch them up without any throttle control and problems would be the norm at this race.

they’re all suppose to be professional race car drivers, i’m sure they know where to bump draft and where not to do so, and if not, of well they suffer the consequences. sunday’s rule change was a case of punishing everyone for the actions of one or a few.

i know the reason behind the allemdinger deal, he was busted for the crime, but why not test waltrip every weekend, he’s so goofy and he is a second offender…oh wait, he’s the head na$car cheerleader. he and brain fart are probably drinking buds.


Ghost of Curtis Turner
11/02/2009 08:24 AM

To Start:
WTF was that? It wasn’t a race it was a side show event.
Kudos to the Drivers for “giving” NASCAR what they asked for.
Kudos to the people at Hedrick body shop for building a car that saved Ryan Newman’s life, I thought we lost another racer, it was not pretty, it was not fun.
Well this year is the year that will go down as NASCAR Jumping the Shark. It’s over, stick a fork in it and turn off the lights. Of course they will redo the points/chase systme for next year.

To the France Family:
Please remove Brian Now!!!!!!

As for the CoT: for something that’s suppose to be so safe, how come this damn thing keeps getting Airborn??????

Jeez, my head is going to explode.

I am just so mad at NA$CAR right now. I wish there was a way for the Fans to Sue NA$CAR for wasting our time and destroying a sport.

I can’t wait to see what the COOL AID team has to tell us about this masqurade.

Ok my last rant: Does anyone doubt that Newman was called to the Big White Trailer to get his hands slapped for the comments he let loose at NA$CAR while he was in the car, or what he had to say on TV after he got out of the Care Center?

OK I lied one more Rant:
If I had to hear Jerry Punch tell me about that damn meeting and no bump drafing in the corners one more time I would have kicked in my TV set.
Then after the wreck, he say’s “ Well you don’t like to see this kind of thing happen…” Well you talked about the Big One for the whole damn race like a ghoul, then when in happens your suprised?!?? Give me a freak’n break!

Ed - Georgia
11/02/2009 08:28 AM

When the last wreck happened, I just turned it to Green Bay/MN and didn’t look back. What a piece of crap! Thanks to Ryan Newman, but Earnhardt said the same thing for years and nothing happened. Why was Allmendinger given a breathalyzer and Mikie Waltrip didn’t get a second look?

11/02/2009 08:31 AM

Ryan Newmans’ comment was NOT about crashes . He said that anyone who thought they were actually watching racing should just leave , cause that sure wasn’t a race .

All kidding aside , i think we are watching the death of the sport of big league stock car racing . Those thousands of empty seats at Talladega aren’t about the economy , they represent the falling interest in NASCAR . And for good reason . Of all of the changes Brian France has made to the sport over the last five or six years , not one has resulted in increasing interest in the sport . Thats a pretty amazing fact if you think about it . The chase , the cot , the constant rules changes , not one of his decisions has been correct . And stock car racing has suffered for it . We can point to FOX , and Larry Darrell and Darrell . We can laugh at the horrible job that Punch does . We can shake our heads at the openly biased coverage of Johnson/Gordon ( reporting on Tony Stewart behind the wall would have interfered with the coverage of Knaus on the pit box i guess ) , but the sport itself just isn’t worth watching anymore .

Its over . Someday in the future , maybe Bruton Smith will re-start the sport . Or maybe we’ll all have to just find another form of racing to be fans of .

11/02/2009 08:34 AM

and all you whining complainers were glued to your seats as you will be for these final 3 races. the only thing worse than you bandwagon complainers who think it is cool to hate nascar is when you come on these message boards and pretend to be long time fans who long for old fashioned racing. please.

11/02/2009 08:41 AM

dan’s mom sells potato chips…the sign on the front door reads “lays 10 cents.”
substitute a road course for this farce or cut it to 9 races.
that stupid walrus mike (go to)helton has go to go …he and the rest of his henchmen are just killing nascar.

Kevin from PA
11/02/2009 08:46 AM

At least Coke realized their mistake with New Coke and changed the formula back within a year. So please do not insult the fine folks at Coke by comparing them to NASCAR (in fact excluding Enron, I really don’t think it is fair to compare any company to NASCAR.)

I would really like for someone to explain to me what benefit the Chase format has brought. Up here in PA, NASCAR has went from the #2 sport a few years ago to being just an after-thought(the type of sport that bars have on in the back on the old school non-HD TV without any volume.) I have never seen something fall out of favor so fast and honestly the drop in people’s interest can be tied directly to the ascension of Brian F.

Oh well – like everyone said – knowing Brian there will be a Chase for the Chase were all the points are reset with 5 races to go (and yet somehow the 48 would still have the thing wrapped up before the last race.)

11/02/2009 08:56 AM

kevin i can explain what the chase has brought.

the people at nascar were/are trying to grow the sport and bring it to a new demographic. they wanted more than just the southeast. they realized that in order to grow the buisiness they had to spice it up and move it into untapped markets. as much as you kool aid drinkers want to pretend to hate it the bottom line is all of you watched it and will continue to watch it. they have grown the sport and they have attracted a different demographic. so even though the ratings have been stale and attendance has been down they are still further ahead than they were 10 years ago.

me personally, im a martin fan. i am glad that the 48 put the title out of reach for 2 reasons. 1.) a title for mark under this format is very meaningless to me. 2.) now they can get back to racing each race and not have to worry about points. i could care less about the points battle. every week there is a race and all anyone is concerned about is the chase and the old points and these points and those points. STFU already and just enjoy the race.

11/02/2009 09:14 AM

NASCAR @ Talladega ‘*N*other *A*wefully *S*carey *C*rash *A*uto *R*acing.

Bill B
11/02/2009 09:28 AM

What numbers are you looking at????
The attendance and ratings for NASCAR have consistently declined since BF has instituted his changes. The only growth that is occuring is negative growth.

I am now only watching the races out of loyalty to my driver NOT NASCAR. When my driver retires I might retire as well.

NASCAR stole my viewership from the NFL and it looks like they are now pushing my back to the NFL. I ended up watching more football than racing yesterday and Talladega is supposed to be THE most exciting race in the NASCAR arsenal.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 09:30 AM

Hey CANUCME! Your “2.) now they can get back to racing each race and not have to worry about points. i could care less about the points battle. every week there is a race and all anyone is concerned about is the chase and the old points and these points and those points.”

Just what in the he** are you talking about? “and not have to worry about points”?



You don’t live in Australia and have your head in the sand now do you?

There is NEVER, EVER, a single race in NA$CRAP that is not dedicated to a driver “just maintaining his points position”!

Lets see now, points positions this year guarantee a sarting place NEXT YEAR! So if a 2010 qualifying is rained out, your “starting position” is based on 2009 points! (first 5 races).

If you finish top 12, you make “The Chase”!

If you finish top ten, you get to “sit on the podium” at the banquet! Gee, how sweet!

If you finish top 35 in “points”, you are guaranteed a next years starting position! Guys like Robby Gordon will continue “racing for, and protecting” his 2009 points position! It IS VITAL to his 2010 season!

There’s more, but in NA$CRAP, you WILL POINTS RACE, all 36 events!

11/02/2009 09:31 AM

Worst ‘Dega race ever. That’s all I need to say about that.

SS Mike
11/02/2009 09:33 AM

Great column as usual Matt but why do you dislike Phoenix? When I lived in California we saw a lot of great races there.

11/02/2009 09:33 AM


i don’t have the numbers in front of me but it has been well documented that the sport has grown tremendously over the past 10 years. granted it has tapered off some over the past couple of years they are still way ahead of where they were. do you have the numbers by any chance? by the way when they chase premiered in 2004 it was thought to be so brilliant that there were actually rumors that the nfl wanted to hire brian france on.

im not a fan of the chase either. don’t get me wrong. but i do understand why they do what they do. let’s face it they still have people like you hooked and you claim to hate it.

11/02/2009 09:33 AM

What a disaster and thank God nobody was killed.. Could have happened easily. I have been a fan of Nascar a very long time and I have to tell you I am about done. The races are un-watchable either on TV or in person. There is no real competition. Long long gone are the days of real stock car racing. Will we ever see them again?

11/02/2009 09:38 AM


don’t take this the wrong way but i really can’t debate you. i have tried to read past 2 sentences of any of your replies and can’t. you make no sense son. fail.

11/02/2009 09:40 AM


thanks for announcing that you are going to quit watching.

damn if i had a penny for everytime i read someone say they are going to quit watching only to come back to the very same forum the following week to complain about something else and again announce that they are done with the sport id be rich!

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 09:48 AM


I’m stunned (but not suprised) you cannot make sense out of logic!

So what needs “explaining”?

Bill B
11/02/2009 09:49 AM

No I don’t have the numbers but if someone can find them let’s talk the last 5-6 years not 10 years (2004 to 2009 is the period that I am interested in). The sport was growing in leaps and bounds prior to all those changes. Once again I can’t prove that but that’s the way it seems to me and I’d love to see a graph of both ratings and track attendance. Where’s Ross Perot when you need him?

11/02/2009 09:52 AM


let’s start here. explain why you sit glued to the tv every sunday watching nascar then come here to complain about it? if you really disliked it why watch? seems to me nascar is doing all the right things if they even get you haters to tune in religously week after week.

Bad Wolf
11/02/2009 10:04 AM

I had not watched a race this year, other than the Daytona 500 and surfing over to the other races once in a while to get the feel and lowdown of the races, but I drank a shot of 190 proof Daytona Beach Flavour Aid (Thats what Jim Jones used, not Kool Aid)and actually watched the whole race. I did this for the whining whiners who show up and say the actual old time and old school fans like myself are just complaining and out of touch with the new and improved Nascar. I have to admit, This was the best race I have seen since the 2008 Brickyard 400.

After watching this farce I have utter contempt for the booth crew like I have never felt before. As the “Race” turned into a long single file parade they knew that TVs were switching to football all over the world, so they pull out all the stops to remind fans like CANUCME that, “Not that we would ever want to see it, BUT DON’T TURN THAT DAIL- THE BIG ONE IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER AND DEATH, DESTRUCTION AND MAYHEM WILL ENSUE, not that we wish for it or would ever want it to happen, BUT DON’T TURN THE CHANNELL, 43 CARS ARE A GETTIN READY TO EXPLODE INTO A FURY OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION, but we hope that doesn’t happen.”

The empty seats at Talledega tell the whole story and nothing more needs to be said about the death of Nascar. I was a huge fan of CART back in the day, the days of Ford vs Chevy vs Buick vs Mercedes and I was one of the cool kids way back when they were running Offy’s, and you could run whatever chassis met the rules. I just missed the roadsters by a few years and wished I could have been around for them. I have seen the death spiral of a racing series before with open wheel, and Nascar is where CART was back in ’94. The glory days of Nascar are over, and have been since the installation of Brain France at the helm of the once great sport of Nascar.

I tuned into Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain last night and he had Ken Schrader as a guest. They were both in full boot licking toady mode and were bowing down at the feet of King Brain, chanting the mantra that nothing is wrong, nothing to see here, move along. Speed Channell is owned by Nascar, is it not? I’m thinking Dave got the call from on high to go into full protect mode if he want’s to keep his job, but I can’t figure out what Schraders deal was. All the callers to the show, then on the webcast after, thought the “Race” was a travesty but Dave and Ken kept insisting there was nothing that could be done and that we should not trust our lying eyes, the races are always like that at Talledega with single file parade racing. Ken also stated with authority that Nascar has always used fake cautions to make the races more exciting. Oh really Kenny?

Nascar, I’m still waiting to see that debrie from turn 3, you know the one that the caution flew for when 43 cars were racing single file in full parade mode. You know, the time the yellow flew and they had to restart the race in “Double File-Shootout Style”. Thank God for that caution, the race was getting pretty boring before.

I threw away the 190 proof Flavour Aid after this “Race”, as to not be tempted to partake of that evil elixer ever again.

11/02/2009 10:12 AM

bad wolf,

thanks for helping prove my point. another hater that was glued to the tv yesterday. what a dope.

by the way what was different with this plate race than any other over the past 20 years? are big wrecks and packs of cars something new over the last 5 years? shit i guess you have ashort memory because i have been watching cars tumble and flip at dega for 15 years now. it’s nothing new.

SS Mike
11/02/2009 10:16 AM

Bad Wolf, great post. You mentioned Offy’s. Ever get to hear a Novi?

I did at the old Whiteman track in Pacomia California.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 10:19 AM

Well CANUCME! Apparently you have not been reading and understanding what NA$CRAP is all about.

For me, I DO NOT WATCH NA$CRAP EVERY SUNDAY. This, Dega, I watched with about 80 laps to go, as I wanted to see “THE REALLY BIG ONE”! But as I said, I only seen the really “violent one”!

But it still represented the current state of NA$CRAP anyway.

This was the most I have watched of ANY race this year, the saturday’s Truck race not-withstanding! That I watched a fair amount! Why, because Dega at one time was my most favorite track! Been there dozens of times! Back when it was REAL RACING!

And I, like MANY OTHERS, feel we helped NA$CRAP get to where it once was, thru our loyalty, and thru our attending many races, each and every year!

Read that thousand upon thousands of $$$$$$ over the years!

We, the old time fan, feel like we have been pooped on, big time, by King Brian, you know, that drunkard in Daytona Beach that makes the rules!

He has TOTALLY DESTROYED any semblance of “stock car racing”,please reference yesterday’s fiasco as prime example!

Why should we simply walk away? That in my mind would be sinfull!

I have not been to a race in 2 years +, but I keep hpoing that someday, King brian will finally hit that tree and we will get new leadership at INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY BLVD!

I hope!

Only wimps walk away with not a peep!

11/02/2009 10:22 AM


what would charts and graphs do? even if they showed a decline you would still just be making assumptions. declining ratings could be for any number of things. i personally know a lot of people who have lost interest simply because of the changing of the guard. when guys like dj, rusty, rudd, terry labonte, and bill elliott retired they lost interest. im sure a lot of the changes have turned many fans off. i know i don’t like a lot of them but i still do enjoy the sport. will that be the same once martin steps aside? i don’t know. mark is what has me hanging in with nascar. but at the same time i am not ignorant to facts. the sport has grown tremendously.

11/02/2009 10:25 AM

canucme…you’re an idiotic moronic asinine fool! Will you please shut the ef up!!!! You’re about as dumb as I’ve ever read here!

11/02/2009 10:26 AM

In the arena of horse racing, what happened yesterday, is known as a jockeys race. The jockeys all get to gether in thier changing room, motorhome lot, and decide a late race to allow a jockey that’s maybe a little behind or down on his luck, Jamie McMurray, to take down a win in and regain some form of momentum or even a ride the next week, year at EGR, and still feed his family.

11/02/2009 10:27 AM


so you tuned in for about halkf the race. see there again nascar wins. if they can get someone who hates the sport as much as you do to tune in well then why change anything?

by the way you said you used to go to dega when there was real racing there? when was that? for the past 20 years they have been running plates there and it has been the same thing ever since. packs of cars and big wrecks are nothing new.

could you tell me specifically what was different about yesterday’s race compared to plate races from 10 or 15 years ago?

11/02/2009 10:28 AM


let me guess. you didnt watch the race either and hate nascar and wish there was real racing like there was in the 50s and 60s. do i have it about right there raymond?

11/02/2009 10:36 AM

Matt..your observation on the prerace flyover still being in the “missing man formation” at Talladega..No I don’t think they still do it in honor of Earnhardt..I think they do it to be a step ahead of whomever is NEXT!

Kool Aid
11/02/2009 10:36 AM

i’m here. who needs a drink?

Bill B
11/02/2009 10:45 AM

“what would charts and graphs do? “

I don’t know, that’s pretty much the only measurement available. You can blame it on the changing of the guard but that has always been a given in all sports. If you can’t weather those changes then you aren’t really a viable sport.Perhaps NASCAR has relied on personalities instead of the competition itself to put asses in the seats. The bottom line is ratings and attendance are the only empiracle measurements available.

And I agree with you that the sport has grown but IMO that growth has been stunted since BF took control. He implemented too many changes too quickly. Those changes should have been phased in over 15 years not 3.

11/02/2009 10:54 AM

i happen to agree with changing everything too quickly. the only upside is that things can only get better. putting the start times back to 1:00 is a good start and judging by the new busch cars i am willing to bet by 2011 the wings will be gone off these cars and we will be back to some semblance of the previous generation car.

and by the way i don’t blame the lull on the new guard. im just saying that could be part of it. i know there are people tuning out now just because of the 48’s dominance. there are a lot of things we could point to as to why ratings are slipping. just keep in mind though if you look at nielsen’s ratings nascar is consistently in the top 5 and 10 which is huge when you think back to even just where they were 10 years ago.

Bad Wolf
11/02/2009 10:58 AM

CANUCME, I was not glued to the race, but actually kept it on screen for the duration of the show. I read 2 Sunday papers, and fired up the laptop after I finished reading the papers, so it was not like the old days when I was really glued to the race and actually watched the whole deal. Big differance. I drank the Flavour Aid in hopes of seeing the “Race” through your eyes, but I still did not like the product I was served. I used to watch all Nascar races with a Zen like passion, but as you read in my first reply I only watched Daytona and Talledega this year. I also do not go to 3 races a year anymore.

Your reply proved my point that the whining whiners read the posts from the old gaurd and read into them what they want. Re-read my reply to Matt and you will see that I was not “Glued to the race” as you assume. Remember, if you assume it just makes an ASS out of U and ME.

For the record, the plates ruined the racing at Dega and Daytona 22 years ago. The real racing happened before the plates and pit road speed limits. The plates were a TEMPORARY solution to cars getting airborn and to keep speeds under 200 MPH for insurance reasons, but when Nascar saw that fans like CANUCME loved the death and destruction that contrived close racing brought they kept them for all the filthy lucre it brought into the coffers at Daytona Beach.

SSMIKE, I only got to hear the offys on TV, as the first time I saw open wheel at the track was 1990. The closest tracks to me then were Indy and Michigan, and it was not untill ’90 that I had the chance to see one live. I was happy to be able to see the likes of AJ, Rick Mears, Big Al and all the other old gaurd live before they retired. The hands down best driver in open wheel I ever saw live at the track was Nigel Mansel.

Keep trying CANUCME, and keep clicking the heels of your ruby slippers chanting “The Racing is Great, The Racing is Great.”

11/02/2009 11:02 AM

bad wolf,

whether you were glued to the tv or not you had it tuned right into the sport you so dread. why would nascar change a thing. they are chasing a new demographic and have the old timers like you tuned right in on sunday.

11/02/2009 11:09 AM

bad wolf,

also you still haven’t answered my question. what was different in yesterday’s race compared to plate races of 10-15 years ago? or even 5 years ago?

Turn 2 Racin
11/02/2009 11:21 AM

NA$CAR could have save lots of time and just had a 20 lap DASH for CASH. Results would have been close to the same! Why waste all that gas, tires etc..on a 500 mile race when it’s a follow the leader parade for the first 480 miles. PATHETIC…The definition if insane: repeating the same action and hoping for different results.

11/02/2009 11:24 AM

turn 2 racin,

ad revenue. if they can get all you haters to tune in for 500 miles they make a lot more money. don’t forget it doesn’t cost nascar a dime when half the field is tore up. but with everyone tuned in for 500 miles they sure capatilze on all the advertising dollars.

Bill B
11/02/2009 11:28 AM

I think that fans having an issue with Jimmie winning 4 in a row is less about condemning Jimmie and more about condemning the chase format. He has become the focal point of abuse for everyone that hates the chase. BTW, I hate the chase but I don’t hate JJ. I do think his 4 championships are a direct result of the format though.

11/02/2009 11:44 AM

Awesome race!!!
Boring as all hell, looong parade laps, sandbaggers getting top-tens, cars flipping, drivers near death (again), massively stupid pre-race scoldings, ignorant questions fired at PO’d drivers….et freakin c!!

Hang on folks, change is coming!!!

Brian France
11/02/2009 11:48 AM

Glad you enjoyed it Hank. Don’t forget to tune in next week to see what happens.

11/02/2009 11:50 AM

bad wolf….i too use to schedule sunday (or saturday) around races. not any longer. i’ll get on pc, work my p/t work, email people, read book or even do housework. i was on phone with friend in maine who is a race fan, and she said the same thing…..she finished painting a room while race was on. she caught the start uninterrupted, but after a while, went looking for something to do.

then na$car has the audacity to have an “open/closed” door meeting about changes to the cot…but wait, we have a year to wait before that even goes into the rule book.

i think the empty seats at ‘dega spoke volumnes of how most “long time” fans feel. we hold out for a gilmer of hope, but realize it’s the same dull star. come back with 20 laps to go and see what happens. texas will be same way.

11/02/2009 11:54 AM

If this commentary doesn’t come to attention, nothing will. Mind you, this is coming from a 25+ year fan. For the 4th race in a row I watched football. Didn’t know who won the race till I watched the sports highlights later. And you know something. I didn’t care. I did find out my longtime favorite driver finished 5th. Sorry Jeff. There’s nothing compelling to make me watch what’s become unwatchable. I am glad to see that Newman walked away from that wreck. So MMP is shutting down. I don’t think it will be the last. And it’s more then the economy. Wake up Nero France. The Emperor’s new clothes are being exposed. One last thing I read in here. Telling the drivers an hour before the race to not bump draft in the corners? What a frigging joke. Well folks, I’m done with this sorry excuse for racing. Somebody needs to start a “real” stock car racing series. Kind of like they used to have. AND CANUCME. I AM A LONG TIME FAN AND FOR YOU TO DISPARAGE US FORMER LOYAL FANATICS SHOWS YOUR COMPLETE STUPITY AND IGNORANCE. GO FIND SOMETHING FUN D TO DO LIKE PLAYING IN THE FREEWAY AT RUSH HOUR. AND WHILE YOU’RE AT IT, STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DOESN’T SHINE.

Brian France
11/02/2009 11:55 AM


Thanks for tuning in. And thank your friend for me too. By the way how’d the room turn out?

11/02/2009 11:59 AM


i dont believe you. i say you watched the whole race and loved every minute of it old timer! if you didn’t watch it and just came here to complain about something you didnt even watch…. well that makes you even more pathetic! gas up son!

11/02/2009 12:00 PM

The answer to all of this is pretty simple really .
The drivers ( not all but the majority ) say they want to race without the plates . They don’t mind the higher speeds , and they want to be able to pull out and pass .
The higher speeds without the plates would put the fans at greater risk .
So take the plates off and let them race . And to keep the fans safe , move the stands back at the highest speed tracks . Talladega and Daytona for instance , eliminate the lower rows of seats under the suites . Too low to see much anyway . And since there are fewer and fewer fans willing to buy tickets for these races , moving the fans up higher will fill all those empty seats . I hear Daytona is currently removing a section of the backstretch grandstands to control demand for tickets . Take the plates off , let the drivers and teams race , and move the fans back , and up , for safety .

11/02/2009 12:01 PM

NASCAR is so frickin stupid. I flipped over from NFL – 21 to go – 5 seconds later back on NFL, will check in a bit. Switch back – 7 to go, cars start wrecking – back to NFL. Complete joke.

And to the goof on here who disagrees with everyone, they had their chance to do more to fix the problem with COT, that is the difference from 15-20 years ago, they had their chance. I won’t ever pursue Allstate insurance, buy a Sprint phone, shop at Lowe’s, ….you get my point.

Bad Wolf
11/02/2009 12:03 PM

CANUCME, I have hated the plate races since the plates were installed. The differance the last couple of years has been the COT, yellow line rule and this year the smaller plates and threats from the tower to arbitrarily enforce the no bump drafting in the corners rule.

If I was a Neilsons ratings home my TV would never be on Nascar, but since it is not I am not worried about my TV effecting the ratings. A few years back I was a Neilson rater for a week and had a packet for each tv that I kept track of. This was in February and guess what, each of my 7 televisions was tuned to anything but the Daytona 500 on Fox according to my TV diaries that I sent back to the good folks at Neilson. There goes another one of your theories about us old timers effecting the ratings, and I would bet any one of the other old gaurd here would not tune to Nascar if their tv was connected to Neilson ratings box.

11/02/2009 12:09 PM


none of those things have had any real impact on the kind of racing we have seen at dega or daytona. it has been the same story for 20 years man. get over it.

Bad Wolf
11/02/2009 12:27 PM

I saw on another site that CANUCME made fun of a fan who said they cried when they saw Nueman flip over.

You are a class act.

11/02/2009 12:31 PM


surfing down all the jayski links about the sport you dread so much and can’t stand. LMAO! pathetic.

Kevin in SoCal
11/02/2009 12:34 PM

Here are the points if NASCAR used my idea of 5 drivers, 5 races:

Johnson: 5385
Martin: 5281 (-104)
Gordon: 5278 (-107)
Stewart: 5241 (-144)
Busch: 5200 (-185)

Johnson scored the most points this week again. Lets face it folks, he’s just that damn good. And people couldnt care less.

Dans Mom
11/02/2009 12:39 PM

I agree, everyone on this site is watching the race – and enjoys them. Why else would you be here? McLAUGHlin just write this stuff to get folks worked up.

Anyone else remember when drivers complained about the bump drafting in the corners? I do. So NASCAR has policed it. Now the drivers complain about being policed.

And Why don’t more drivers race around in 30th and wait for the end of the race to move to the front? Or use the first 26 races as a test session for the chase? Or win 4 straight titles?

Bad Wolf
11/02/2009 12:42 PM

I like the way the newbies come here to shout from the rooftops that all us old farts are out of the loop and everything is fine, telling us if we hate it so much to just not watch. I say the same to you; If you hate what the fans that built the sport are saying here and feel threatened by it just go to Fox or ESPN and hang with like minded fans on their forums. I say don’t come here if you love the product Nascar is spoon feeding you.

All you are doing is making this site more popular and making their ratings go through the roof. If you hate it so much why are you glued to it every Monday morning as soon as you get out of bed?

I gave over 3 decades to this sport and feel like I have earned the right check out Jayski and take the pulse of the sport. My new sport is watching the destruction of this once great series and hoping it will rise again better and stronger from the smoldering pile of ashes.

11/02/2009 12:48 PM

I didn’t even watch LOL. I knew Matt would give me all the info I needed.

11/02/2009 12:55 PM


who is telling you everything is fine. we’re just pointing out that we don’t believe when you say that you don’t watch the races and can’t stand nascar. it’s tough to believe when you spend your whole day online reading about it and discussing it.

i also don’t believe you have been following the sport for 30 years.

and lastly it is kind of fun to watch you get upset when we expose your lies and hypocracy!

by the way i enjoy matt’s work and have enjoyed it for many years now. he is a great writer and im always guaranteed a couple of laughs. i know you really want to be like him and idolize him but he has the 1 important thing that you lack. credibility.

11/02/2009 01:31 PM

You think you’re so great that you can dis Krista Voda? Maybe you should get an Ass-Master since you’re about the biggest ass at Frontstretch. Publish a photo of your svelte hog ass on your hog, sonny, and let us judge you.

11/02/2009 01:33 PM

krista voda…. id hit it.

Dyno Dave
11/02/2009 02:03 PM

The correct lyrics are “Toss me a cigarette, I think there’s one in my raincoat”

As for the race: “no comment”

wayne morgan
11/02/2009 02:08 PM

Yes I watch NA$CAR and have since the late sixties but it has been better and worse at times as well.Too much control from the big wheels and sponsors to keep it having racing like it should be. On a sad note MMP here closed down Friday and my old favorite Nashville Frairgrounds closes this year. If you want great racing follow WOO late models. Good stuff and not bad ticket prices. In fact the cars are like the COT, as you don’t know what the hell they are but fast and rubbin’is racin’ lives there on dirt.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 02:17 PM

Gee, we finally found out what Krista is good for, FINALLY!

Making fun of!

And for our dear friend CANUCME! (maybe that should be changed to “canuunderstandme”?

Well, not really, but have been going to Dega since it opened! YEP! I am that old!

But, certainly before restrictor plates! There is a hundred ways to keep speeds below “take off” speed, the “plate” was not the most brilliant idea! (I was in the carburetor business & at one time supplied all NA$CRAP carburetors), there were MANY options to the plate. Yes, I was there when Elliot set the speed record! Yes, I was there when Bobby Allison got airborne in front of me! Yes, I am a Newman fan, see him a couple of times a year at a relatives house, NO! I will not slink away and let King Brain Farce thinks he rules!

Even with the dreaded “plate”, and before the POS, there would be two or three groups of cars spread around the track! The POS has made it much worse, now EVERYONE is riding along in the same pack!

Before the POS, as I stated earlier, some 6, 8 or 10 cars would hook up, and form a conga line, then they would snake down the backstretch trying to break the draft of those behind, a second group would be 20 car lengths back doing the same thing, and then yet another group!


MMMM, maybe we can coin a new phrase here! “BLANKET RACING”!

Dyno Dave
11/02/2009 02:19 PM

Actually, to be technical, there are only two “booms” in “boom boom, out go the lights”

And the place he drove his Chevy to was the “levee”…not the “levy”…

Sorry, the race just left me in “that kinda mood”

11/02/2009 02:32 PM


so you’re saying before the COT there weren’t cars flipping and tumbling?

do you see why i don’t believe when you say you have been going to dega since the 60s? if you don’t realize cars have been running in packs and having violent wrecks there for over 20 years it is hard to believe you. no offense.

11/02/2009 04:16 PM

The race was a joke. They need to do something about the race track instead of telling the drivers how to drive. If I had paid to go to the track I would have been livid after that fiasco. Fix the track or change the cars back to how they used to be. And leave this stupid race out of the chase next year if that’s how it’s going to be. Noone wants to watch them drive single file until there are 20 laps to go and then see that crap at the end. Nascar dictates the end of every race and I’m sick of it.

11/02/2009 04:22 PM

Canucme, you seem to think it’s your “job” to irritate. If that’s your aim, you deserve an ‘A” for A—hole. The point is, some of long time fans are tired of the constant knee-jerk reactions of nas$crap. Since Dale Sr. died there has been a big void as far as leadership. Kind of like a rudderless ship. Just two years ago I would have never missed a race. I have attended races. I have followed the same frigging driver since the mid nineties. I used to plan my Sundays around nas$car. But like a lot of other fans, they’ve slowly lost me. From reading commentary I’m certainly not alone. Bring back real stock racing and I’ll be back in a heart beat. I love racing. I still watch racing on tv. Mainly the trucks. Well, I’ve vented. In closing I have this to say. nas$car. if you fix it, they will come back. It’s that simple.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 04:39 PM


I just love it when people insert their own words and assumptions! Just love it!

First, in ANY racing there can/will be the “tumble”, been there, done that myself. That, is motorsports!

But in “the days”, it was a random affair!

Today, with the pack mentality, it is TWO (2) EACH RACE AT DEGA!

Minimum of TWO (2)! EACH AND EVERY RACE!


BUT! No matter what, I simply do not understand your point! PERIOD!

I am against “pack racing”, always have been, always will be!

Never, ever, said it was good!

What I REALLY did say, was in the past, a few cars (8 or 10) ran together, now it is all 43!

And also what I said was the POS mandates the “pack mentality”, because no one can get out of anyone’s way! The car simply does not handle!

In this case, if “somes” good, “more” does not make it better!

Shoot, go back and look at the replays of yesterday, watch all 43 cars wadded up in a bunch, and then tell me the driver has control over his own destiny!

Crap, this gets tiring!

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 04:43 PM

Hey Matt, nice job today, you sure tipped over the ALABAMA outhouse for sure!

Can smell it all the way here in Michigan!

Nice job dude!

Lunar Tunes
11/02/2009 05:06 PM

Well lets see here…

ISC stock has dropped how much in the last 3 yrs? TV ratings (to support multi-billion dollar deals to the networks) are down how much in the last 3 yrs? Attendance at tracks is down how much the last 3 yrs? In less than 5 yrs, nascar has run a once thriving diecast/souvenier business into bankruptcy. Communities on the East AND West coasts shot down ISC/nascar’s plans to build new tracks in no uncertain terms. nascar flatly REFUSES to renegotiate the network deal, despite the continued lower ratings, demanding they pay the full amount, resulting in ludicrious programming by the networks in an effort to make more advertising dollars. Sponsors are fleeing nascar faster than cockroaches in a mobile home fire down south.

How’s that “new, younger demographic” working out for them now, CANUCME?

On the bright side, Fontana got a second date. ISC has gotten into the casino building business at the KC track. (Who wants to bet KC has a 2nd date within 3 yrs?!) Tickets to the Bristol night race are now easily rediculous to get! Lets see…what else…oh yeah! How could I forget!? We got Digger!!!! Oh, and nascar just received not one, but TWO, prestigous awards for brilliant marketing and “listening to the fans”!

11/02/2009 05:57 PM

I just wanted to state for the record that New Coke was an ingenious plan by Coke to switch from using real sugar to corn syrup. So they changed to New Coke, rather sure that it wouldn’t be a success. If it was, they would have just stuck with it. But, of course it wasn’t. So when they switched to Coke Classic, it actually was a different formula, but tasted so much like the original that it didn’t occur to any one that it had changed. If they had just done the switch without the New Coke plan, people would have noticed the difference and complained.

So the New Coke comparison to the Chase is not really a fair comparison. Coke had a pretty sure fire plan that it would work, and it did. The Chase on the other had was an attempt to go up against the NFL, and it has basically backfired… and it isn’t a plan that was just supposed to distract us while they changed the original format.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 06:00 PM

Hey Lunar Tunes, nice summation, and more to the point, things started going downhill, but fast, when King Brian decided, or thought anyway, (mmm, did I say “thought”?, my fault, he has not had a “thought”, in years), that to make even MORE MONEY, he would go after, and cater to, THE WINE AND CHEESE CROWD!

(even though he apparently only drinks the hard stuff himself, and plenty of it)

Thus we are presented with California, the banquet in New York City (remember all the jokes about the old timers, Junior Johnson, etc, HAVING to dress in Tuxedos?) Hell, he never ever seen one before)!

The “parade” of race cars on the streets of NY? (which King Brain found out very soon that no one in NY City gave a crap about his little parade)!

And the ever changing of start times to “appease” the WestCoasters!

And that is the primary reason he developed THE CHASE! Because the wine and cheese crowd more relates to playoffs and such!

And the “throwing to the dogs” of the old time fans, you know, the ones that paid all the bills? (as in us)!

King Brain Farce all by his lovely self, (and whatever mind he may have left), turned his back on the “establishment”, such as it was, and figured, wrongly enough, (but then again he seems never to be right), that the “newbies” would far outweigh the “oldbies”!


Welcome to present day NA$CRAP!

A disaster in the making!

All because of one, single, solitary IDIOT!

And that my friend, is yet another episode from:


Paul M
11/02/2009 06:11 PM

So if the plates were removed, we would end up with a 5-car breakaway with the haves dominating the have-nots, as per usual. Is this what everyone wants to see? Watch some old Dega and Daytona races on ESPN Classic, and sure there was some slingshot passing going on, but really, it was typically, pretty boring. Remove the plates, and Talledega becomes nothing more than a faster Pocono, with very little going on. And how violent do you think the crashes will be at 212 mph when you move the stands back and let it rip? Look at some of the horror shows at IRL races when they are flying around.

I don’t think Brad Kesolowski and Jaime Mc Murray would win the races at any other track, so this track gives the lesser stars a chance. I like that.

Racing is dangerous and potentially fatal. People have died at Homestead and New Hampshire recently.

The stands are empty because A) People cannot afford to go anymore. B) Tracks over-expanded in an up period. C) People are sick of 1.5 mile ovals.

As CANUCME states, the sport is way bigger than it ever has been, despite the downturn. Look at all the products and exposure out there. It is there and much larger than it was 10 years ago. Races on a free TV network against the NFL? That would be unheard of 10 years ago. Races in prime time on the big 4 networks? Who would have thought it.

NASCAR has gone too far on many things, and has hurt their cause. Debris cautions are a joke. But moving up the start times, and the double-file restarts are a start towards making the product better. I am still watching when I can. It isn’t terribly exciting, but the 48 car is making history, and we should appreciate how they are doing it and the beautiful synergy between Knaus and JJ. They have it figured out. Watching it is like watching Tiger Woods or Lebron at work.

NASCAR may be inept, but somebody will figure it out over there. Just a shame it is such a monopoly. Makes it a bit of a farce.

And I would just like to add, that insulting someone on this board, makes you look stupider than the person you are calling out. Fairly immature, and demeaning of yourself. If you have to resort to that, you take away from any point you are trying to make.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 06:22 PM

WOW! So many good post today!

Great reading people, such as: Fred, Lunar Tunes, Bad Wolf, MidasMicah, Janice, Carl D, Joey Wilson, John, Funky D, Gordon82wins, Janice, Ghost of Curtis Turner (think he is turning over in his grave about now), Mack, Kevin from PA, Bill B, MilChad, Jack, SS Mike, Ray, Lydia, Kool Aid, Turn 2 racin, Hank Z, Brian France (I wouldn’t be caught dead using that name), Ryan, Brent, Kevin in SoCal, Dyno dave, and so on!

WOW! where did all you folks come from? Some interesting comments today, lots of good info!

With one common theme!!!


Bad Wolf
11/02/2009 07:27 PM

If I was the Benevolent Dictator of Nascar I would throw out the plates, bring in stock production V8 blocks with stock heads and cut the CID to about 250 for the plate tracks. I would mandate the bore remain stock at 4.000 based on the Chevy 350 and Ford 351 but drop the stroke to get the 250 CID. Run whatever size carb and rear gear you want, and bias ply tires are going back on the cars. No more silly rear wing, it would be replaced by a spoiler.

I would also get rid of the COT and make the teams run bodies that conform as much to stock as possible.

Nascar has had 22 years to figure this out, and have failed miserably.

11/02/2009 07:30 PM

Can anyone explain to me how Johnson wound up sixth in the “OFFICIAL” results? One version I saw had Waltrip in fifth. Didn’t they show his in-car camera view and when he went through the wreckage there looked to be at least twelve cars ahead of him. Did he pass them after the yellow came out?

And for Mister Turnip, I have some good news/bad news. The Outlaw sprints will have a new tire supplier for 2010. Goodyear! Seeing as these are real race cars, maybe it won’t be so bad.

11/02/2009 07:57 PM

Hell fire. All I did was post some innocuous PC comments after a race and today I woke up and I’m Jerry Springer!

Jim T
11/02/2009 07:59 PM

CANUCME go get you a real life instead of responding to every negative post you know it all P###. Your not adding anything new with the crap in your posts. Accept the truth of NA$CAR and their stupidity.

The Turnip!
11/02/2009 08:02 PM

Hey DoninAjax, yeh, I know that Goodyear is the spec tire of the Winged Sprints. I guess this does not bother me as I do not follow the winged sprints, any winged sprints! I am a non-wing sprint car lover, love the sideways drifting thru the corners, and The Terre Haute action Track is the best!

Watched an absolute awesome sprint race there during Indiana Sprint Week!

I mean an awesome show! Maybe the best I have ever seen at Terre Haute!

And, getting back to the NA$CRAP series, and of course Goodyear tires, just how many Goodyears simply failed during the weekend? (note, the announcers still insist that the tires were cut) how stupid!

In what I watched of the truck race, and the 80 or so laps of the CUP race, there were indeed MANY Goodyear tire failures! At least, my estimate, a full dozen drivers had their races affected by tires that simply came apart!



And don’t you just love NA$CRAP when it comes to “freezing the field” when a yellow comes out?

It took NA$CRAP over two (2) full hours for them to decide who they wanted to finish where!

(but I understand King Brian was out for dinner and they had to wait for his return so they got the finishing order correct to his liking)

Just kidding! Or, wanna bet?

11/02/2009 08:09 PM

I think Ryan Newman’s comments should be repeated everywhere. That has to be the greatest interview of the year, and possibly in a long time. Maybe it is time for a NASCAR Drivers Union?

11/02/2009 08:40 PM

CANUCME…I said I was about done.. I never said I was going to quit watching racing.. are you a moron?

11/02/2009 09:15 PM

Classic points the old way (REAL RACING) after Talledaga, from Jayski. 1-J.Johnson 4752 pts., 2-T. Stewart -7, 3-J. Gordon -72, 4-M. Martin -430. Matt you old cat licker,after that 12oz. of warm beer, Krista looked pretty HOT as Batwoman!

Kevin in SoCal
11/02/2009 09:45 PM

What makes you think the points would be the same the old way? For one, you wouldnt have “points racing” just to maintain their Chase status during July and August.

Bad Wolf
11/02/2009 09:47 PM


The Monitor
11/02/2009 10:03 PM

CANUCME, you’ve been blocked from at least one website today. Don’t bring your disrespectful crap here. Take it to Foxsports.

Richard in N.C.
11/02/2009 10:50 PM

McLaughlin, takes a big man to make fun of a lady’s looks. I think you need to wipe the brown off your eyebrows.

11/03/2009 01:14 AM

Sorry I’m a day late, but I think I have it figured out: canucme (he doesn’t deserve capital letters) must work for NASCAR. Otherwise, how could he spout such idiotic stuff?

Slim Shady (CANUCME)
11/03/2009 01:23 AM

I work at McDonalds and live in my Moms basement.

Bill B
11/03/2009 10:47 AM

Kevin in SoCal,
I am tired of whenever someone brings up the old points system someone else has to say “yeah but they wouldn’t race the same”.

That may be true to a point but it’s not that pronounced of a difference. During the beginning of the season everyone races for the best finish they can (under either points system). During the second half the guys that are in 5th to 15th race for points to make the chase. The guys leading and safely in race for wins. Since those in 5th to 15th wouldn’t be in contention for the championship without the chase and resetting the point they really don’t matter. I contend that the guys that most likely had a chance to win the championship under the old system race for the best finish possible under either system. I will admit that prior to seeding chase participants by wins a driver assured a chase berth may have used some of those races just prior to the chase as test sessions but now that they are seeded by wins that isn’t happening.

11/03/2009 11:38 AM

McDonalds, mom’s basement—that also explains it.

Kevin in SoCal
11/03/2009 12:56 PM

Bill, I’m tired of people bringing up the old points standings and saying the racing would be sooooooo much better the old way. So we’ll just have to say our opinions disagree on this point.

Bill B
11/03/2009 01:53 PM

@Kevin in so cal,
Fair enough but I think the point being made isn’t so much what format was better, it’s that you can’t orchestrate a close points battle with the point differential between 1st and 43rd. For those of us the despise the chase format we will continually rub NASCAR’s nose in it for being stupid enough to think they could.

Kevin in SoCal
11/03/2009 04:17 PM

I definitely agree with you there, Bill. The 12 Chasers should have their own point system separate from the other 31 racers.

11/03/2009 05:31 PM

I’m an old timer. I watched the whole race. It sucked. Wanna fight about it?

Bill B
11/03/2009 06:46 PM


11/03/2009 07:07 PM


11/03/2009 09:03 PM

Once upon a time they raced to win! Drivers gave it all they could, pushed their machines to the limits. The engine shop tweaked them for all they were worth. The shop and pit crews gave it their all to get the “checkered flag” , to reach Victory Lane. Now Knauss and Johnson have rendered the checkered flag and victory lane obsolete places in the march to the “Championship”. I’m not a Gordon (24) fan but in the four year stretch from ’95 to ’98, he won 3 of his 4 championships and won “40” races along the way. That’s racin! That’s not sitting back and working on your “average finish”

11/06/2009 04:37 PM

Did Krista Voda turn you down for a date?

11/06/2009 04:44 PM

Nope. Never met the woman. Judging by the rock on her left hand that could choke a buzzard I’d say she’s spoken for. (I never got that big dismond thing. If you’re going to spend that sort of money on a woman why not get her something useful, like a Harley, an old car or a Thig…well let’s not go there.

You’re a bit late to the party, Eric. Have a beer. It don’t cost nothing. Then explain to me why you would ask such an insane question.