The Frontstretch: Side By Side: Were The Gibbs Penalties Too Harsh? by Bryan Davis Keith and Mike Neff -- Thursday August 21, 2008

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Side By Side: Were The Gibbs Penalties Too Harsh?

Bryan Davis Keith and Mike Neff · Thursday August 21, 2008

 

Editor’s Note : The following is a special edition of Frontstretch’s Side By Side. Occasionally throughout the season, two of your favorite Frontstretch writers will duke it out in a debate concerning one of NASCAR’s biggest stories. Don’t let us be the only ones to speak our minds, though…be sure to read both sides and let us know what you think about the situation in the comment section below!

Today’s Question: Following Saturday’s Nationwide Series event, Joe Gibbs Racing was accused of tampering with their race cars during post-race inspection. By placing magnets underneath the accelerator pedals, JGR hoped to reduce the amount of horsepower NASCAR would read off their chassis dyno as they researched whether more rules changes were needed to equalize horsepower between manufacturers.

The sport’s reaction to this transgression was swift — and it was severe. Crew chiefs Jason Ratcliff and Dave Rogers have been indefinitely suspended, along with five other crew members accused of participating in the project. Both the No. 18 and No. 20 cars lost 150 championship car owner points, and drivers Joey Logano and Tony Stewart lost 150 driver points as a result of the incident.

It was one of the harshest penalties handed down by the sport this decade; but were those penalties far too much for a scenario that didn’t occur until after the race? Or did NASCAR let JGR get off easy for a deliberate violation that — if left undetected — could have kept the sport from permanently changing the rules to level the playing field?

JGR’s Nationwide Program Got Off Easy
by Bryan Davis Keith

Throughout the 2008 Nationwide Series season, Joe Gibbs Racing has made it look so simple. From the drop of the green flag at Daytona — where JGR posted a one-two finish with Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch — to Busch’s latest win at ORP, their Nationwide teams have scored a total of six poles and 14 wins. 13 of those victories have come with their Sprint Cup drivers behind the wheel, with the lone exception coming courtesy of up-and-coming 18-year-old Joey Logano.

But just as they have made competing in the series look easy, NASCAR let JGR off easy on Wednesday when they announced penalties for the most blatant episode of cheating we’ve seen this season. At first glance, the penalties laid down by the sport seem harsh enough. You’ve got points deductions … heavy fines… and indefinite suspensions of crew chiefs and other key race personnel. But upon further review, this punishment does not come close to fitting the crime.

JGR was unquestionably found to be deliberately tampering with NASCAR’s inspection process, impeding the very testing the sanctioning body relies upon to preserve the parity that its second tier series requires. At an even more despicable level, this maneuver was an example of a high-powered, high-funded racing juggernaut attempting to further beat into submission a field of smaller teams and drivers that already can’t keep up with their resources, manpower, and RPMs. And before anyone screams innovation is what racing is all about, let’s not forget that this is not the Sprint Cup Series we’re talking about here. This is the Nationwide Series, NASCAR’s AAA, lower-tier division that relies on smaller teams simply to maintain its existence, teams that need the integrity of rules to remain intact in order to survive. However, despite the consequences that would ensue if the cheating went undetected, the penalties levied by NASCAR officials are not far removed from those they’ve handed down in separate, lower severity instances this year.

Unfortunately, as any fan knows, there is no such thing as precedent in NASCAR. So, let’s take the penalties as they are and look at what effects they actually had. First off, drivers Joey Logano and Tony Stewart each lost 150 driver points. But since neither one of them is pursuing the Nationwide Series title, this has no impact on anyone — it’s a truly insignificant reduction.

Next, the No. 18 and No. 20 cars both lost 150 points in the owner standings, another slap on the wrist that comes with minimal impact. The No. 18 car has not attempted all of the races run in 2008, meaning that no matter how many points the team accrues, they cannot earn a “locked in” spot in the Nationwide Series field. The No. 20 car, on the other hand, is running for the owners’ championship, and after this penalty now holds an oh so precarious lead of 168 points over the second place team of Richard Childress Racing. Ouch, that one hurt.

J.D. Gibbs had a whole lot of explaining to do after his team’s Nationwide Series program was caught cheating at Michigan.

Granted, there are numerous engine tuners, crew members, and most notably crew chiefs Jason Ratcliff and Dave Rogers who were suspended indefinitely from NASCAR. Joe Gibbs Racing went above and beyond the sport’s ruling following the penalties, pledging to suspend any named crew member for the rest of the season who was involved in the incident in question. These suspensions, however, are not going to keep these JGR personnel out of the race shop; and judging from previous suspensions of crew chiefs, they’re not going to be of much detriment to the performance of the No. 18 and No. 20 cars. Just look at the No. 48 team of Jimmie Johnson in the Cup Series… they won the sport’s biggest race a few years back despite having their crew chief suspended. JGR’s own Dave Rogers demonstrated how much influence a crew chief or personnel can have on race day even when not present in person, describing on ESPN’s broadcast of the Montreal race how fellow JGR personnel — thousands of miles away in North Carolina — spent the race texting him setup notes and suggestions atop the pit box. Now, he’ll be the one doing the texting — and with all the communication technology enjoyed by upper-tier teams like this one, it really won’t matter who is sitting atop the pit box for both the No. 18 and No. 20.

So, the long and short of it is points penalties and crew suspensions are old news and are not proving effective in curbing cheating — and there is no better evidence of this than this latest episode with JGR. Despite actively laying waste to the Nationwide Series field week in and week out, this team decided to cheat anyway. Despite serving as hardly anything more than a vessel for Cup regulars Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin, and Tony Stewart to score some more trophies and purse money they don’t need — they decided to cheat anyway. And despite being able to have both of its cars finish in the Top 10 at Michigan in the face of NASCAR’s limitations on Toyota horsepower — they decided to cheat anyway.

Because of that, these teams should pay the ultimate price; a ban from actual NASCAR competition as punishment for circumventing the rules. Unfortunately, the sport missed a golden opportunity to make an example out of JGR. Despite having blatant evidence that a team backed by an unpopular manufacturer and fielding some very unpopular drivers was cheating in a second-tier series that they’re dominating, the sport instead came up with the old points-and-fine routine. And if last week’s incident at Michigan is any indication of the future of cheating, its actions that’ll prove equivalent to doing nothing over the long run.

Contact Bryan Davis Keith

The JGR Penalties Are Too Harsh
by Mike Neff

Did JGR try to intentionally affect the outcome of the chassis dyno tests at Michigan by altering the distance that their throttle could travel? Absolutely. Is that action detrimental to stock car racing and several other violations? Most definitely. But were the penalties handed down fairly? Not in my opinion.

Let’s start with the 150 driver penalty points Bryan mentioned above. They’re completely uncalled for in this scenario, as these men neither participated nor benefited from the actions of their teams. It has been repeatedly acknowledged that Tony Stewart and Joey Logano had no knowledge of what occurred, and were not near the vehicles when the purported magnet placement happened. If that’s the case, why should they have to pay a penalty for not only something they didn’t do, but something that didn’t affect the outcome of where they finished in the race? Since neither is running for the driver’s championship, this is somewhat a moot point, but it does set a precedent and in the future could affect a driver who is in the battle for the title.

Moving onto the team itself, there is no doubt that the owner, Joe Gibbs, should be docked points for this incident — after all, he is responsible for the actions of his organization and any activities performed by his employees. Losing 150 points really has no significance to the No. 18 team, but the No. 20 car is leading in the owners’ championship. That is a hefty chunk out of what was a pretty comfortable lead before the penalty, and should not be understated; to me, 168 points is a deficit that can now be overcome.

Additionally, there is no question that the crew chiefs should have been fined. Even though they are in the Nationwide Series, I actually think $50,000 is a little light; however, giving each crew chief an indefinite suspension — followed up by Joe Gibbs Racing suspending each man the rest of the season? That is simply too much. The teams were trying to influence the outcome of the tests so they would not be handicapped any further; remember, the Toyotas have already had their horsepower reduced by NASCAR over the perceived advantage their engines have over the rest of the competition. Other crew chiefs have done things to try to gain an advantage during a race and have likewise been suspended — but it was always for a definite period of time. I’d say a suspension for these actions is certainly appropriate; but there should be a finite period handed down by NASCAR so that the teams can plan ahead and the organization knows what lies ahead of them. Perhaps the sanctioning body had some advance knowledge of what Gibbs was going to do; but again, these are penalties which will set a precedent for similar instances moving forward.

Of course, NASCAR has to rule the sport with an iron fist, and their implementation of penalties will certainly determine how seriously teams look at cheating. However, handing down suspensions that are open ended for activities that relate to teams trying to gain an advantage with their race cars is simply unreasonable. I agree with indefinite suspensions for drivers or crew members who are found to use drugs, but when it comes to suspensions related to performance, they need to have a definite time frame. As such, the penalties handed down were simply too harsh — and set a dangerous pattern for how NASCAR’s going to handle these types of scenarios when they pop up in the future.

Contact Mike Neff

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Kenneth
08/21/2008 09:51 AM
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“Unfortunately, the sport missed a golden opportunity to make an example out of JGR. Despite having blatant evidence that a team backed by an unpopular manufacturer and fielding some very unpopular drivers was cheating in a second-tier series that they’re dominating, the sport instead came up with the old points-and-fine routine.”

Are you serious? You’re implying that the popularity of the manufacturer/driver should have an influence on the penalty NASCAR gives, which is probably the most absurd thing I’ve read on this site so far.

It's Me!
08/21/2008 10:41 AM
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I agree Kenneth.

Do you think the penalties would be as harsh if it were a Chevy or Ford team? Oh, but wait, Chevy and Ford haven’t been able to step up to the plate with their engines and compete with the Toyotas (the reason for the “Toyota Rule” in the first place)so they’d never be in this situation.

What JGR did was wrong, plain and simple, and they should face penalties, but the INDEFINITE suspensions (of 5 crew members, no less) are WAY too harsh. Remember these are first time offenders and they were not ILLEGAL during the race, so what’s the deal? Many other crew chiefs have cheated to put their cars into victory lane on NUMEROUS occasions and the worse they see is a six week vacation.

Thank goodness the criminal justice system isn’t ran by NASCAR, otherwise a model citizen that gets charged for not cooperating with police would be put in jail for life without the possiblility of parole!

mike
08/21/2008 11:07 AM
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“Do you think the penalties would be as harsh if it were a Chevy or Ford team?”

For a Ford team yes. Chevy? Depends on what team.

Johnboy60
08/21/2008 11:40 AM
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Yes Mike, you are correct! I will admit that I thought toyota would get away with it! As I have been saying right along, they have won and ruined every series they have been in, and they really don’t care how they win as evidenced by this magnet deal!!

mike
08/21/2008 12:19 PM
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“they have won and ruined every series they have been in”

What..by winning? So when chevy totally dominates then everything is ok?

“ they really don’t care how they win as evidenced by this magnet deal!!”

Yeah, it’s sad. Because we all know that no chevy or ford team would ever cheat to win. They may make “mistakes” but cheating? Never.

Burn in hell, Toyota!

Joe
08/21/2008 01:51 PM
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To me, the bottom line is this did not affect the outcome of a race nor were the methods used in a race. I am sure other teams have tweaked their car in one way or another to give them a perceived disadvantage in dyno testing or aero tests in order to hopefull “level” the playing field. NASCAR was founded and based on ingenuity. The bootleggers souped up their cars to outrun the police and did whatever it took to get it done. Smokey Yunick, Red Vogt, and crew chiefs such as Harry Hyde and Dale Inman, Jeff Hammond, Tim Brewer, and yes, Gary Nelson, got where they were by tweaking their cars to get an advantage. Remember Bobby Allison’s rear bumper in the Daytona 500 in the early 80’s? Gary Nelson. Hell, you could write an encyclopedia on the various tactics used to gain advantages or “massage” cars as needed. Right now, I guarantee there are people at every race team trying to figure out ways to circumvent the CoT and get as far into the gray area as they can. It’s their job and if they didn’t sponsors would be leaving. It becomes a matter of I don’t want to know what we did to win, I’m just glad we did. I mean who was the first car owner to cry due to this? Roush. Same guy that cried about the stolen sway bar, rocket fuel in Waltrip’s car, everything. The old adage goes if you ain’t cheatin’ you ain’t tryin’. It’s what NASCAR was founded on.

I don’t think Toyota has ruined every series they’ve been in. Maybe you’re not watching, but the truck series has been down to the wire the past few years and they do not have a Chase format.

It’s hard to see clearly with the xenophobic glasses that many of you have on.

Was Dale Inman suspended for the remainder of the year for the King’s cheater engine at the World 600? What about Junior Johnson and Hammond when DW’s engine broke into a million pieces at the Winston just after he crossed the finish line? Evernham or Knaus and Rick Hendrick get suspended for the year for Gordon or Johnson’s transgressions? Nope. But in 2 years, you had Hyder from the 55 car banned or “fired” for rocket fuel and the 20 and 18 guys from the Nationwide series summarily banned for the year as well. Fair?

Doesn’t have to be, it’s NASCAR.

falcon325
08/21/2008 02:09 PM
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>>At an even more despicable level, this maneuver was an example of a high-powered, high-funded racing juggernaut attempting to further beat into submission a field of smaller teams and drivers that already can’t keep up with their resources, manpower, and RPMs.<<

That is an excellent point, Bryan.

NA$CAR may like the money that the Cup teams competing in the NNS brings in, but the little teams are getting killed.

It’s one thing for the Gibbs organization to be part of the “Stealing Candy From Babies” tour, it’s another for them to cheat. NA$CAR should have parked the 18 and the 20 for the rest of the season and fined “Joe Jesus” a million or two, with the money going to those struggling little real NNS teams with rookie drivers, pit crews in training and no access to seven post shakers.

Joe
08/21/2008 02:57 PM
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the “Joe Jesus” comment tells me that there is obvious animosity toward the fact he is now a Toyota guy. Didn’t hear these when he was driving Pontiac or Chevy.

Douglas
08/21/2008 03:30 PM
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If anybody wonders why I rag on NA$CAR so much, then this situation should explain it all!

1. NA$CAR “awards” chumpionships supposedly to the “best and fastest cars/drivers! (that’s what racing is supposed to be, correct?)

2. NA$CAR through it’s points system, and $$$$ system of payouts, “rewards” those fastest drivers/cars!

3. NA$CAR always claims it is trying to “hold costs down”!

4. Manufacturers/Teams try to develop the “fastest” cars they can, under the then current rules! Millions upon millions of $$$$$$ are spent trying to be the best. (and the fastest, remember in all this, NA$CAR rewards the best & fastest)!

5. HOWEVER!!! Let a specific team/manufacturer come up with developments, within the rules, that make their cars go faster, and NA$CAR wants to start playing games with the rules to now penalize success!

6. So, you the team, do your jobs better than the others, and bingo, NA$CAR wants to not only dyno test your motors, but now place NEW restrictions on what you build!

7. So, after all teams spend huge $$$$ to work on their engine programs, NA$CAR then steps in and negates that investment by changing their rules!

8. If NA$CAR wants everyone to run a 700HP motor or such! THEN PLEASE MAKE THAT A RULE!

Don’t let all the teams employ hundreds of engineers, along with the development and research dollars that it takes for these improvements, AND THEN TAKE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS AWAY!

Save ALL the teams money and effort and simply apply a HP rule! From the git go!

Then you might not entice anyone to place magnets under the gas pedals! Remember, NOTHING IN THE MOTOR OR ON THE CAR WAS ILLEGAL!

It was the fear of NA$CAR penalizing a team for doing it’s job!

PERIOD!

Señor Obvious
08/21/2008 05:09 PM
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Doug, you know that they did the exact same thing back in the day with both the engines and the bodies. Changing rules to create a more competitive field is nothing new.

To those who reason that the offense didn’t happen in a race, so the penalties shouldn’t have been as harsh, you’re missing a key element here. The results of that dyno test would affect all the teams, not just JGR’s, for the rest of the season, or at least until NASCAR decided to check the engines again. It’s clearly cheating to put something on the car that would keep it from acheiving WOT when the tests are checking the powerband. Just as much as if they strapped magic invisible turbo-chargers onto the Dodge, Chevy and Ford engines.
It’s not exploring the grey area. It’s deception, clear and simple.

Kevin in SoCal
08/21/2008 05:20 PM
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I’m fine with the penalties, except the loss of driver points. I dont believe the drivers had anything to do with it, and shouldnt have been included.

Toyota races in F1 too, and they arent stinking up the show. In fact, its either McLaren or Ferrari in F1, and everyone else is just a field-filler.

Douglas
08/21/2008 06:59 PM
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Hey “senior obvious”! Thanks for the comments, BUT I think you miss my point dear friend!

and that is: if NA$CAR wants to reduce HP in the middle of the season, on engines built to NA$CAR’S own rules, why “allow” such costly development in the first place?

Simply save everyone money, and limit the total HP to 700HP!

Think of all the monies spent by ALL the teams trying to go faster (and “win” NA$CAR’S top prize)only to have that investment and engineering work penalized?

And I also wonder why NA$CAR penalizes the drivers in cases like this? As brought forth by Kevin in SoCal!

Is NA$CAR telling us that the drivers now must spend 24/7 with their cars as they appear to be responsible for ALL work done on the car?

Guess Tony Stewart will have to set up a cot next to his cars to keep an eye on them at all times!

And I meant “cot”! Not CoT! Although both are designed to put one to sleep!

Battiman
08/21/2008 08:12 PM
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Spec Cars, next Spec Engines and then the un-spec-tacular racing will lead people back to midgets and sprint cars on dirt…

Allen
08/22/2008 02:08 PM
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In the beginning of time for a Nascar Engine, Configuration had to be approved. NASCAR said:It’s O.K.

This is your Bore size, Stroke, Cylinder Heads etc. NASCAR said: It’s O.K.

Go Build it to these specs. without going over and in Elliot’s case from years past don’t go under.

After many of hours and dollars later you have yourself a Legal Nascar Race Engine.NASCAR says: It’s O.K.

If you happen to build a middle of the road engine nobody cares or knows.NASCAR says: It’s O.K.

You show up at the track and your car is faster so Nascar wants to see your homework, if you show them what you have built Legally and it is better than they expected , It Was O.K.

Where does it say Nascar can tell you that if you do mediocre work and not out shine the other competitors that they won’t bother you or if you really work hard and do it just like they tell you to and it turns into a masterpiece they are going to penalize you for your hard work and share it with the others. Legal used to be O.K. !!!!

FunkyD
08/23/2008 12:22 PM
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If it were Hendrick or Childress dominating this year, then there would’ve been no new engine rules.

Nor would everyone and their uncle been suspended like this. Chad Knaus has done this and more and has never been indefinately suspended.

I’m done watching Cup Lite…er…Nationwide.

More Side by Sides!