The Frontstretch: Side By Side : Does The NASCAR Points System Need An Overhaul? by Tom Bowles and Vito Pugliese -- Thursday April 16, 2009

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Side By Side : Does The NASCAR Points System Need An Overhaul?

Tom Bowles and Vito Pugliese · Thursday April 16, 2009

 

Editor’s Note : The following is a special edition of Frontstretch’s Side By Side. Occasionally throughout the season, two of your favorite Frontstretch writers will duke it out in a debate concerning one of NASCAR’s biggest stories. Don’t let us be the only ones to speak our minds, though…be sure to read both sides and let us know what you think about the situation in the comment section below!

Today’s Question: Seven races into the season, Jeff Gordon already holds a lead in the points so large, all he needs to do is start the race at Phoenix to maintain it no matter where he finishes. But even with such a large cushion, he wouldn’t even be the point leader in the playoffs if the season ended today.

Is this a sign our points system needs a major overhaul? Or should we keep things the way they are?

It’s Time For A Change
Tom Bowles

I used to be in love with the NASCAR points system. Even when driver after driver ran away with the championship prior to the Chase, I thought it was the best way to encourage competitive, side-by-side racing throughout the 43-car field.

But six years into our “new” championship system, I have to take a deep breath, shed a tear, and state the obvious … it’s no longer working.

In fact, there’s so much wrong with the points system today I don’t even know where to begin. Oh, well … I guess it’s logical to start at the top. As I write this piece, Jeff Gordon heads into Phoenix with a 162-point lead on the rest of the competition. That lead is so large, even if Gordon finishes 43rd and Jimmie Johnson wins Saturday night — leading the most laps in the process — it’s Gordon who will still emerge ahead of the pack.

Now, there’s no question Gordon is well deserving of his place in the standings. During the 2009 season, he’s had no finishes lower than 13th while winning once and placing second twice more. Leading the series in a number of statistical categories, Gordon has by and large been the class of the field in 2009.

So if that’s the case … why is Gordon the third seed in the playoffs?

That’s right; if the season ended today, Kyle Busch and Matt Kenseth’s two wins would leave Gordon 10 points behind them in third place. Despite a dominating regular season, that would leave the four-time champ stripped of the equivalent of home-field advantage. Everything he worked for and accomplished during the regular season would suddenly mean nothing. And how fair is that? It’s like taking a 15-1 football team that won their division by three games and making them a wild card selection in the playoffs. The whole thing just doesn’t work.

But the problems for not rewarding the regular season point leader run far deeper. To qualify for the playoffs, Gordon need only finish 12th or better. It doesn’t matter if he’s 5th or 7th … he’ll still be seeded based on his win total. And while Gordon would love to win every race … he’s not going to have a winning car every weekend.

Follow me for a moment on this. Let’s say Gordon has a 4th place car, it’s in the middle of the summer and he’s comfortably ahead in the standings … assured of a spot in the playoffs. What incentive would he have to go side by side for third late in the race? What’s that going to get him? At best, he has the “pride” of getting third … at worst, he has a wrecked race car the team wants to use at a later date. What’s Gordon going to do?

You know the answer, because you’ve heard it from countless drivers many times before. “We had a good car, but just didn’t have enough to win,” says Mister X after letting the fans watch him run single file like he’s on a highway drive. “We just needed a good points day, so I settled for fourth.”

I’ll be honest; in a way, I don’t blame drivers for doing that based on the way this system is set up. If there’s no incentive to take risk, drivers are not going to take the risk. After all, money is not an issue for them anymore (even the worst-paid drivers are making six figures) and the scrutiny they take for ruffling feathers from sponsors, team owners, and the media don’t exactly encourage them to step out of line. Risk is borne out of desperation … and there’s nothing for these drivers to feel desperate about under this system.

But you’d think the backmarkers would at least keep it interesting, right? Well … that’s not exactly true. For teams struggling to stay in the top 35, that ugly philosophy of “risk versus reward” again comes into play. For a team running 27th heading towards the finish, what incentive do they have to place 26th when an aggressive move leaves them wrecked, 40th, and forced to qualify on speed the following week due to that loss of points? It has been well documented by all sides on how falling out of the top 35 can absolutely kill a season. So, why are you going to risk aggression when playing it safe allows you to safely time into the field next week, avoiding the awkward confrontations with everyone that supports you that would ensue from making a mistake?

You see where I’m going with this one. The points system on both ends — the Chase and top 35 — rewards conservatism, not aggression. And NASCAR fans don’t come to watch drivers play it safe; otherwise, they might as well sit on the hill of their local hometown and watch cars drive single file down their local highway. That’s something they can do for free … and more and more, people are choosing to do that or another form of entertainment on their Sunday.

It’s important to pay attention to that fan phenomenon, because it’s so much easier to fall off the top of the mountain than it is to climb up it. For the sport to stay on top of that mountain, they need drivers back to a mode where they’re pushing themselves on the race track to get every position they can every lap of the race. They need a race where risk-taking is a necessity … not a luxury, where the top 35 rule is eliminated to put everyone on a level playing field and give the have nots the ability to give 110 percent. And most importantly, they need a system where the regular season champion gets rewarded with the number one seed in the playoffs … because that’s the basic tenet of pretty much any other sport in America.

The writing’s on the wall, NASCAR. The time for change is close at hand … and the reasons for doing so are becoming impossible to ignore.

Points System Fine As Is
Vito Pugliese

The issue has been raised in recent weeks if the NASCAR points system needs an overhaul of some sort. After all, points leader Jeff Gordon has 162-point lead over second place Jimmie Johnson heading into Phoenix. Gordon only needs to start the race and he will still be the point leader following the race, regardless of how Johnson or third place driver Kurt Busch perform. Some say, “See, this proves that the points system in NASCAR is not working as it should!”

I say, “Big deal.”

Much like how talk of banning assault weapons – or any firearms for that matter – comes up every few years, so does the notion that NASCAR’s point system needs to be scrapped in favor of something different. Ironic since our current system of government and way of life is apparently being scrapped for a more European (Eastern…that is…late 70’s…) model, the talk lately has focused on a Formula One-style points system, as seen below.

In that great bastion of automotive democracy which surely promotes equal time for all parties within the FIA, there was talk of bumping up race winning points to 12 points for this season, however that has been pushed back until 2010. As you can see how it stands now, points are paid through eighth place, which when considering the stakes involved, would probably make for a pretty sparse field coming to the checkered flag at Talladega or Daytona.

1st place: 10 points
2nd place: 8 points
3rd place: 6 points
4th place: 5 points
5th place: 4 points
6th place: 3 points
7th place: 2 points
8th place: 1 point

How in a sport where there is great racing throughout the field, would a points system like this promote anything but follow-the-leader/courtesy run amok style of racing?

First of all, the sheer numbers of this system don’t work. In Formula One, you have a field that is half the size of a NASCAR grid. The races are also 90 minutes long, not 3 and a half hours or 500 miles in length. Some of the greatest championships in history (Benny Parsons in 1973 for example) were won by sheer doggedness and determination, and just keeping the car on the track to score a few mesely points that in the end could make the difference between being a champion, and teetering on the brink of emotional collapse for three months. Having a “good points day” could mean riding around with the front clip removed from the car and no hood at Bristol to a 28th place finish after getting caught up in a wreck and tossed around like a pin ball– not finishing eight and scoring, “a” point.

I fail to see how any of this would make for better racing or a closer championship fight. Come to think of it, why do we constantly have to fiddle with things? Why can’t we just leave well enough alone and let things shake out as they will? Do we really need to have an 8 point spread between first and second every weekend? Does anybody even pay attention to the points until the middle of summer? You do realize that none of this is remotely relevant for another five months, right? The new seeding system pretty much takes your regular season consistently and completely marginalizes it anyway. You could be 400 points out of first at race number 25, but as of race number 26, you’d be seeded first because you won the most races.

Going out on a limb here, I’m also guessing the sponsors would probably not be so keen on scoring a Top 10, yet acquiring as many points as one of the much maligned Start-and-Park competitors.

Does that seem at all fair? What about the four races a team blew motors or the driver backed it into the wall? A premium should be put on winning, but not at the expense of consistency and excellence on the track and in the pits. This is a team sport after all – since we are constantly reminded of this every broadcast. They do go to great lengths to draw analogies from stick-and-ball sports for us to follow and glean our own conclusions from.

Let’s be honest; if you really want to fix what’s wrong with the current points system, we all know what would work: get rid of The Chase. It’s been five years now, and nobody cares. The name of it changes every couple of years now anyway, so you aren’t building any sort of brand or nostalgic trophy that will be revered for ages to come. Just because it’s on TV in the fall, does not mean it will out draw the NFL, no matter how close the points may be.

The current points system is working fine because it still harkens back to the previous Latford points system, which worked so well for nearly 30 years and gave us some of the most memorable moments in racing history. If NASCAR was going to do anything with it, a minor tweak is all that would have been needed. Give a 15-point bonus for winning, 5 points for winning the pole, and maybe a couple of extra points to those finishing in the Top 5. That way, wins, speed, and consistency are all recognized and rewarded. And we can stop talking about this every time somebody accumulates a point-lead through hard work, success, and by simply being better than the other teams they are competing against.

Imagine that. Only in America…

Contact Tom Bowles
Contact Vito Pugliese

 

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Douglas
04/16/2009 10:13 AM
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The points system as we know it today needs trashed, as does the “chase”!

Please read Larry McReynolds column at fox sports about the need for NA$CRAP to change!

In fact a poll he has at his article, a FULL 88% of respondents say NA$CRAP needs to change!

And in my opinion the points syetm is one of the irritants these days of how NA$CRAP is run and presented to us, the paying customer!

Jeff
04/16/2009 10:54 AM
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I’m with Tom. The old point system worked great until 2003 when a less than fan favorite driver named Matt Kenseth drove away with the championship with consistent driving and top ten finishes. I admit I lost some interest towards the end of the season, but there’s always those coveted top 10 positions for the year end banquet. If Dale Jr. would have put in that same performance in 2003, we would still be under the old and better system. Now, if we are stuck with the chase, lets go back to the 50 point seperation for every position from 1st to 12th, then add 10 points for each win.
Jeff

Bill B
04/16/2009 12:24 PM
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When I look at the points system I don’t look at it to see how it could make the championship more interesting for me to watch, I look at it as what is fairest to the drivers, teams and sponsors. I will be watching every week no matter what the points system is. And that is NASCAR’s real problem, they want a spike in interest/viewership like stick and ball sports. Well, I hate to say it but racing is not like a stick and ball sport and that is why this chase sucks. The old points system was fine. All they needed to do was give the winner 25 or so (the number of points is the only thing debatable) more than the guy the finished second. There is nothing fair about the chase when measure against performance for the whole season. It is now a 10 race season where luck is even more important than when the season was 36 races long (a bad finish due to bad luck can be mitigated much easier over 36 race stretch than a 10 race stretch).

Christopher
04/16/2009 12:34 PM
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There ought to be a larger difference between 1-10th place in a race and everything below. Encourage every driver to give whatever it takes to at least be tenth.

As well, the battle for 10th, 11th, 12th in the middle of a race would be more exciting.

In terms of the chase, I believe its necessary. Sports need a playoff.

Why not just seed based on the place you ended up, like all other sports?

Maybe a bouns for top 5 finishes, not wins as well.

Bill B
04/16/2009 01:06 PM
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Christopher,
Other sports need a playoff because they don’t play every team every week so if you are in a weak division you can pile up the wins whereas, if you are in a strong division you may be a better team but your number of wins might not reflect it. The playoffs are a way to factor out these inequities and hopefully determine who in fact the best team is. In NASCAR all the teams compete against each other every week so there are no inequities in who you play from week to week. This is why a playoff should not be necessary (beside for entertainment value and ratings) in NASCAR. The best team is the team that accumulated the most points in 36 races.

Joe W.
04/16/2009 01:45 PM
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I agree with Vito on this one. The points system only needed a little tweak not a major overhaul. I also agree with Bill B. as to why a playoff was not need in Nascar. I must admit to being sort of neutral on the chase, but I do think Jeff Gordon should have at least five championships so I guess I lean toward the non-chase side. I thought it was cool that consistency played into a championship and it still does just not to the degree it did. But does anyone think someone who wins 10 races but has 10 DNFs should win a championship?

Bobb
04/16/2009 02:07 PM
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I personally am not a fan of the Chase…
Under the old format, the Chase began at the first race and eliminated contenders from the championship all season long.
Perhaps a return to the old system with a bigger bang for winning… 225 points for a win while all the other points stay the same? Then, winning becomes much more valuable.

Kevin in SoCal
04/16/2009 02:13 PM
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Jeff said: “Now, if we are stuck with the chase, lets go back to the 50 point seperation for every position from 1st to 12th, then add 10 points for each win.”

This is the best solution right here, in my opinion. Or the other good solution was halving the points difference between each person after race 26. That way your consistancy during race 1-26 counts for something, and then you still get a points reset to make the last 10 races seem more exciting.

Bobb
04/16/2009 03:00 PM
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In any case, I doubt NASCAR is going to change either points or the Chase.
The much sought after excitement to compete with the NFL at the end of the NASCAR season hasn’t proven to be a barn burner. But, until they find something electric or a no brainer, I doubt they’ll do anything.
Having said that, the only thing we expect NASCAR to change is the top-35 rule; who owns what teams? After the recent winter of points-teams-owners shuffling, NASCAR said they’d have to take a look at their system… and with the number of cars a team can have going into 2010, NASCAR will have to define and fine tune their definitions.

Max Fan
04/16/2009 05:16 PM
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One change I would make would be to give drivers that finish 30th or worse the same number of points. This would equalize drivers with “one bad finish” in the championship hunt AND would prevent crews from sending less than completely safe cars on the track after an accident just to pick up a few positions for a few points.

Douglas
04/16/2009 07:34 PM
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Well, as one can see, there are lots of (good) ways with refining the points system that not only would reward WINNERS, but not penalize one bad race, and actually make each and every race a race to win!

WOW! Can you imagine watching a NA$CRAP race where someone is actually after a win?

What a novel idea!

mike
04/16/2009 07:59 PM
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The bottom line for me is….

the very LAST thing I want to hear…..

“we had a great points day”

To hell with that!!!

I want the driver to go for the win at all cost!

I can stand on the side of the interstate to watch people ride around.

Bill B
04/16/2009 08:23 PM
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Mike,
So how do you feel when a football team sits it starters out on week 16 because they have locked in the top playoff berth and have nothing to gain but injuring their starters. Same principle. Playing smart instead of with your heart. Whether you want to admit it or not, sports is as much a chess game as a physical confrontation.

SS Mike
04/16/2009 08:25 PM
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NA$CAR is not gonna change anything. What they have now is perfect.

After all you folks spend the bucks to attend the races and you watch it on TV right?

Kevin in SoCal
04/16/2009 10:36 PM
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SS Mike, that is a weak arguement. NASCAR ratings and fan attendance have been dropping steadily since 2006. Obviously a lot of people are not watching anymore.

Red
04/17/2009 01:03 AM
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The points system definitely needs an overhaul, but I think the bigger problem is that Nascar puts too much emphasis on the championship and not enough on individual races. If each race were more exciting, with guys actually going all out for wins instead of settling for top tens, then we probably wouldn’t be so obsessed with having a close points race.

I agree with Bill B that the goal of the points system should be to reward the most deserving driver, regardless of how “exciting” the championship turns out to be. Personally, I’d be totally fine with a driver clinching the title with 6 races to go if he was the dominant driver over the course of the season. The guy with the best season should always win the title (seems obvious, but I guess Nascar doesn’t see it that way).

I mean, how many people actually take Kurt Busch’s 2004 title seriously? Everyone knows he wasn’t the best driver that year.

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