NASCAR Race Weekend Central

The Frontstretch Five: Reasons NASCAR Blew the Penalties for the Charlotte Fracas

Welcome to the Frontstretch Five, a brand-new column for 2014! Each week, Amy Henderson takes a look at the racing, the drivers, and the storylines that drive NASCAR and produces a list of five people, places, things, and ideas that define the current state of our sport. This week, Amy says that NASCAR made a big mistake in the penalties handed out to Brad Keselowski and Tony Stewart following a postrace incident at Charlotte.

(Credit: CIA Editorial Photography)
Hamlin certainly has a history of tempers and run-ins with other drivers, but Amy Henderson says his actions in Charlotte crossed the line (Credit: CIA Stock Photography)

NASCAR had a chance to gain some credibility and maintain consistency while sending a strong message to drivers Brad Keselowski, Matt Kenseth, Denny Hamlin, and Tony Stewart after post-race tempers boiled over at Charlotte last weekend. If you missed it, Keselowski and Kenseth tangled a couple of times on track during the race, and Keselowski hit Kenseth’s car with his own on pit road after the race. Keselowski inadvertently bumped Tony Stewart in the process, and Stewart took exception, throwing his car into reverse and slamming backwards into the front of Keselowski’s car.

Hamlin, meanwhile, upset with Keselowski for contact in the closing laps, brake checked Keselowski on the cool down lap and then followed Keselowski through the garage, cutting through stalls, on the way back to their haulers. Keselowski lit up the tires in the garage bay and, according to Hamlin, hit a transmission a team had in there in the process. Hamlin was restrained from going after Keselowski when the two climbed from their cars, but Matt Kenseth wasn’t, and Kenseth jumped Keselowski from behind as he walked through the garage area.

For all of the post-race actions, NASCAR fined Keselowski $50,000 and put him on probation for four weeks. Stewart got a $25,000 fine and four weeks’ probation. Hamlin and Kenseth were not penalized. Given past penalties and the fact that Stewart was provoked , NASCAR got it right with him. They failed miserably on the rest. Here’s why.

1. NASCAR is playing favorites… big time.

Or at least they’re giving the illusion that they are, and you can look at it in a couple of ways. One, you can say they gave preferential treatment to Kenseth and Hamlin because of their Chase status, and the same case could be made for Keselowski, whose actions warranted more than he got.

But you could also read something else here: both Hamlin and Kenseth drive for Joe Gibbs Racing, a team which has had several infractions in recent years but received relatively light punishment for it. For all the talk among fans on the Internet about NASCAR playing favorites with various teams, this most recent non-penalty for one team could certainly be construed as favoritism, even if who they drive for never entered NASCAR’s thought process.

Whether or not NASCAR was favoring anyone here is not really important, but that it certainly looks that way to race fans most definitely is. If people believe the illusion is real, it gets awfully hard to prove that it isn’t, and that’s the corner NASCAR finds itself in now.

2. Marcos Ambrose and Casey Mears should demand a refund.

Consistency? What consistency? At Richmond just this spring, Marcos Ambrose and Casey Mears got in a spat after the race. Mears confronted Ambrose and then grabbed him by the arm, and Ambrose responded by sucker-punching Mears in the side of his face. Ambrose was fined $25,000 and given a month’s probation for hitting Mears; Mears got $15,000 and four weeks for provoking him.

So how does Kenseth get away scot-free six months later? Again, is it because he’s in the Chase? Because of the organization he drives for? His reputation for being mild-mannered? Whatever the reason, it was a bad decision on the part of NASCAR, who already has the reputation of being inconsistent with the rule book. Kenseth jumped a competitor from behind in the garage after a race and attempted to tackle him to the ground. Two other drivers were penalized for a similar infraction earlier this year. How on earth can NASCAR justify this lack of response? Perhaps Ambrose and Mears (with Mears, in particular, having a mild-mannered reputation similar to Kenseth’s) should be asking for their fine money back.

3. What about the people not in 3200-pound racecars?

This part might be the most puzzling, and most egregious, of all. Retaliating on pit road after a race is bad enough because drivers are unbuckling their seatbelts and removing helmets, and there are crewmen walking on pit road as well who are not protected by a car’s roll cage. The fine and probation Keselowski got is mostly consistent with penalties given to Kurt Busch after a similar pit road incident in 2012, except that Busch got probation until December 31, more than six months. Keselowski got… four weeks. The season won’t even be over in four weeks. He should have been given six months for thie pit road incident.

And he should have gotten parked for what went on in the garage.

There are a lot of people in the garage area after a race, including crews and media, and because it was Charlotte, the home track for most teams, there were family members of many crewmen as well. According to witnesses in the garage, people had to scatter to avoid Keselowski and the pursuing Hamlin. That neither driver hit anyone with either their cars or the transmission Keselowski allegedly sent flying is completely beside the point. Neither driver, but Keseloski in particular, by doing a burnout, had any regard for the safety of those around them, and Keseloski should have been parked for Talladega.

Why parking and not a points deduction? Two reasons. One, taking points for something that didn’t directly impact the race doesn’t warrant that. Two, a points fine would have little to no impact in this situation. Keseloski is in a situation where he must win at Talladega to remain alive in the Chase, and if he doesn’t advance, the fine would not matter. If he wins, the point fine wouldn’t matter because he’d automatically advance with the same number of points as the other seven drivers who move on.

4. And what about Hamlin’s role?

Hamlin was hardly an innocent bystander. Unhappy with Keselowski for contact in the closing laps (whether that happened because Hamlin was holding up a faster Keselowski is debatable), Hamlin threw a brake check at Keselowski on the cool-down lap. Keselowski tried to turn him, but didn’t get enough leverage, and Hamlin then followed Keselowski to the garage and through the bay itself, showing about the same regard for the people working in that area. No, he didn’t light up his tires and he didn’t scatter a heavy drivetrain around, but he did provoke Keselowski to do those things by giving chase. A suspension might be a little harsh, but a hefty fine and six-months’ probation was the least NASCAR could have done. And perhaps at least parking him for a couple of laps at ‘Dega might have made a point, too.

5. So, in a nutshell, if you’re in the Chase, you can do whatever you want.

We knew from the start that NASCAR would allow the Chase to become a free-for-all. They said as much when they announced the format in January, declaring

(Credit: Yvonne Leonard)
Is the new Chase format encouraging drivers to do dangerous things? (Credit: Yvonne Leonard)

“we expect contact!” like a proud parent. What was unexpected was that they would allow it to spill over onto pit road and even into the garage without repercussion, save a slap on the wrist here or there, that drivers would be allowed to jeopardize the safety of many in the name of excitement.

NASCAR is getting exactly what they want from this Chase with on-track messes (some of which could well go beyond racing incidents into team orders territory) and post race confrontations. What they haven’t gotten so far is better ratings or more people in the stands. And in the long run, if the sanctioning body continues to let its credibility erode like this week, the manufactured excitement won’t be enough to keep the sport relevant. The lack of consistency and regard for safety will further undermine the sanctioning body, and there will be nobody to blame except NASCAR.

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kb

I do agree about the refund for Marcos and Casey. When they fined them for their beef. which they pretty much kept it to themselves, I was shocked. Those amounts hurt those guys. Nascar over reacted and place a big forced donation to charity from those two guys, which was wrong, imo. They are not in the same income bracket as the top earners. Nascar got it right at least throwing something at Kez, and Stewart. Sponsorship in the Chase I am sure made a huge difference, but no freaking way with the dramatics of Hamlin and Kenseth should there be a pass. But the actions of the 4 and the whole evening was stupid, why is it not surprising the saga isn’t complete with all involved getting a slap. Who knows anymore.

Bill B

5. So, in a nutshell, if you’re in the Chase, you can do whatever you want.

That’s what I have taken from this whole deal. NASCAR puts the chase above safety, above common sense and above the integrity of the sport. It’s all about the chase.

I hate the chase.

JohnQ

Exactly, special rules for special fools. This same non logic from the same non sanctioning body that figured, “Safer barriers, who needs safer barriers, it’s not like anybody got killed.”. A little automotive dust up on pit road and in the garage, it’s not like anybody got killed. A little pocket change fine should about do it. When someone does get killed or seriously injured the lack of action by the non sanctioning body will certainly be a contributing factor.

Dennis

Still a bit fuzzy on what exactly Hamlin did after he left pit road for the garage area so I can’t offer an opinion on whether he needed some sort of penalty or not. As far as him brake checking Kez on the cool down lap, well Brad wrecked his race by running him up the track on the restart so I think that simply evened the score on that.

Brad is a different case. From the reports I’ve read, he disregarded everyone’s safety in the garage area. For that reason I’d give him a minimum one race suspension.

I wouldn’t have given Tony or Matt a penalty as I’d want to make it clear to Keselowski how out of line he was. But, as always, NASCAR penalizes in ways I don’t agree with. So, what else is new?

GinaV24

#5 – you’re in the chase, you can do whatever you want. Yes, exactly. NASCAR is thrilled to pieces I’m sure about the various driver meltdowns and resulting craziness – it got them lots of press and coverage from media that normally wouldn’t even mention NASCAR and its ridiculous Chase, so it’s a win/win for them – even if the coverage (like ABC/GMA’s) got it totally wrong. So people who don’t follow NASCAR are going to tune in to the upcoming races to see if another fistfight or wreck breaks out? Wow, that’s just great. Haven’t I heard various media voices accusing fans of wanting and enjoying wrecks, etc. and castigating the fans for that? Funny thing is, I don’t think most fans do want that but NASCAR certainly does – it sells tickets, otherwise they wouldn’t run clips of wrecks for the track ads.

I hate the chase, they are never going to convince me that this is anything close to a fair way to decide who the season champion is. A crapshoot yeah, it’s that and may well result in a random winner with the big trophy, but IMO it is totally bogus. If Gordon wins it will I still be happy? Yes, of course, I will but I won’t hate the format any less.

SR37212

From the video I saw all Hamlin did was crawl along behind BK. It was when BK thought he had been boxed in that he nailed it and Hamlin still just crawled along. I am far from a Hamlin fan but there was nothing he did that would have caused injury.

On the other hand Nascar’s penalties mean that I will be reading about the races here. I won’t watch another Chase race this year. I realize one viewer doesn’t mean much but I have a feeling ratings will drop to the point that Nascar won’t meet their contract audience goals in that new contract.

Pokey

The penalties passed out several months ago were excessive on the part of NASCAR. The penalties passed down this week were spot on. Nobody got fined except for the two drivers who intentionally placed innocent people in danger. Tony will pay an inordinate cost for his actions in the future, I am sure, but how do you fine Keselowski for recklessness with his car on pit row if you don’t also fine Tony for recklessness with his car in retaliation? The whole thing will eventually get settled on the track, as it usually does. Talladega should be a bunch of dad gum rumpled sheet metal anyway and these guys will probably settle their issues with each other at Martinsville and I wish I wasn’t 1600 miles away from Martinsville or I would have already bought a ticket to that race! ABC/ESPN sucks and should be ashamed of their poor broadcast at Charlotte, and I wish them well as we say goodbye forever to them in November. Amy Henderson needs to understand that, in all sports, fights will occasionally break out. Driving a car 200 mph for 500 miles with 42 other competitors trying to beat you will sometimes result in fisticuffs. Grown men shouldn’t fight to resolve their problems, but sometimes a grown man has to fight or he will deal with even bigger problems later. I say that was Matt Kenseth’s situation. It is a credit to sports and the civility of our society that people can compete at this level without violence the vast majority of the time. I will be watching the last five races despite the crappy coverage ESPN will provide.

jerry mallard

and a headlock isn’t dangerous? Matt should have gotten the harshest punishment!

Carl D.

While all four drivers had varying lapses in judgment, I’m okay with what Nascar dished out. Matt Kenseth was sorely pissed but at least he didn’t take his frustrations out while in the car on pit road or in the garage. What Tony Stewart did on pit road was dangerous; someone could have walked between his car and Brad’s as Tony threw his into reverse (and had that happened and someone got hurt, Tony might as well retire). Because of that, Tony’s fine is warranted. Like Dennis, I didn’t see what Denny Hamlin did while he was in the car inside the garage, so I can’t comment on that. Once out of the car Denny acted like a buffoon, but I don’t think he violated any rules. As for Keselowski, he deservedly got the biggest punishment. Whether it was severe enough is a matter of opinion. I’d have been okay with a Talladega suspension, but taking into account that this is his first offense of the sort, I’m pretty sure the fine, the probation, the bad publicity and the damage to his reputation has gotten his attention.

By the way, I hate this whole stupid chase. I haven’t complained about it much because, really, what’s the point? However, I just want to go on record as saying Brian France isn’t just incompetent, he’s an embarrassment to the sport of auto racing. Bill Jr. should never have procreated.

Racing Rhino

NASCAR’s five reasons for handling it the way they did.

1. $
2. $
3. $
4. $
5. $

And that’s the bottom line.

rascalmanny

Didn’t Kurt have to sit out a race once? Brad should miss a race.

I call B.S. for penalizing Stewart.

If Nascar was taken seriously and legit, BSPN would be all over it. Ultimately Nascar can do whatever because the masses don’t care.

DJ

You’re five statements are good. But let’s take the fines area a step further by looking at how they truly affect the mega-star mega-$$$ drivers. At first stance these fines look large but when you calculate how much they really affect a driver’s livelihood, they pale quickly.

Just an example using the largest recent fine: Lets say Brad Keselowski earns $5million a year (altho he probably makes more with his Penske (ie Ford) salaries, endorsements, truck teams, souvenir sales, etc). A $50K fine is ONLY ONE PERCENT of his annual income!

Let’s compare that with folk who’s income is $50K a year,. Then a 1% fine is $500. Hhmmm…a $500 fine would make most common folk stop and think “Maybe I shouldn’t do that again”.

But when you’re making $5M a year, your discretionary income is hundreds of times larger than some person making $50K a year. The mega-stars just shrug off these fines with a “Whatever, I’ll make that up in t-shirt sales next weekend”.

These fines don’t rein in a mega-star’s future actions at all. If NASCAR is truly interested in improving pit-road/hot pits safety, they should immensely increase the “car used as a weapon” fines to maybe 5% of annual income($250K in this example). Otherwise parking them is the only real deterrent to stopping these dangerous spats .

Sorry to rant, but the fines in all professional sports are no more than window dressing. Making them miss a race(game) is the only way to hopefully get their attention.

Carl D.

At the risk of stirring the sexism pot, is it just me or does it seem that it’s mostly women who have a problem with punches being thrown by drivers after a race? I’m not passing judgment on anyone, but it seems like most women feel that Nascar should punish drivers for fighting while most men seem to think that there’s nothing wrong with it. Just my observation and I could be wrong.

Upstate24fan

I thought Brad might warrant a points penalty, but it looks like NASCAR confined the penalties to actions taken with the cars on pit road and in the garage (Brad and Tony). I’m thinking Matt didn’t get fined because unlike Ambrose and Mears, no punches were thrown, only a bad headlock attempt from Kenseth. I think everyone can put the whole think behind them. It was sure entertaining though.

I just don’t get all the calls every time something like this happens to “park” somebody. It’s a call that NASCAR rarely makes in the top series and it usually only done when something truly egregious happens or a person has a rap sheet (Kurt in 2012 for threatening Bob Pockrass, Kyle in 2011 at Texas, Robby Gordon in 2007 for going insane at Montreal, Jimmy Spencer in 2003 for sucker punching Kurt Busch). All those guys had long rap sheets with NASCAR.

JER

I’m with you Carl D. As far as I know no driver has any professional mixed martial arts skills and no one yet has pulled a gun, knife or tire iron, so about all thats going to happen is a
black eye, some skinned up knees and elbows, big deal, so lets just have “Boys Have It”
Only Danica gets a pass, since I have great respect for all women. Jimmy Spencer helped Curt Busch become a better man, something no fine or probation is going to do. Too much thin skin, and hurt feeling now days, if you were born before 1950 you see how the young people have to make a big deal out of everything as witness by posting to these Frontstretch articles.

buckie16

I think the penalties are pretty typical. But if #2 gets one & think #11 should too. #11 chased #2 thru the garage. So how is #11’s behavior not equivalently poor? Also, in the post-Ward era, I figured removing helmets & belts prematurely (as #20 & #11 freely admitted) would have been punitive actions or otherwise addressed somehow, but I guess the new emphasis on safety conduct was just lip service.

Fyi – points deductions are usually reserved for guys already on probation …or guys that “disrupt the orderly conduct of a Nascar event” …aka: intentionally wrecking someone during an race. And driver suspensions usually do not come unless a driver is already on probation (unless it involves banned substances). The last major suspension stemmed from KyBu, during a truck race, as an exhibition (non-points) driver, while already on probation, intentionally wrecking the points leader (RH Jr.). This is called “disrupting the orderly conduct of a Nascar event”. Before that, it was KuBu, while already on probation (for wrecking Allgaier in a NNS race), abusing a media member with “verbal behavior” by telling him “[…I should] kick the **it out of you [for asking stupid questions]”. BK did none of that! This Charlotte series of events is not comparable. Not in the least! Only thing remotely similar is the #20 tarring into the right front of the #2 under caution on Saturday night.

As for TS, he earned the fine. Reviewing the vids. Anyone can see, entering pit road, the #2’s nose is essentially clean. And note that #14 apparently saw #2 approaching & locked his brakes (as his in-car cam shows) , even thought he had no one immediately in front of him (as shown from other cams), before #2 got to him. So #14, while in the pits, essentially brake checked #2 also & caused the first #2 & #14 contact. Then, no mistaking, the #14 GROSSLY over-compensated by reversing against the orderly flow of traffic & smashing the *ell out of the #2 car’s entire front end while on pit road. To deny that is to contend that smashing-up a parked car is good racing …or being a role model of man-ly-ness. Incomprehensible! Imo this is most shamefully flagrant uncalled for act of the night. And it was the only sever breech of safety. And also implicates a non-chaser damaging the equipment of a chase contending team. Which is another interesting aspect of the #11 & #20 (JGR team) intentionally impairing the #2 during the race, but I will not open the “chase manipulation” can-of-worms now, though I easily could.

If anyone should be suspended it is clearly the #20 for “disrupting the orderly conduct of a Nascar event.” NOT the #2! But according to Nascar’s punitive history, probation is strike one, suspension comes only after probation first. So, I am essentially at peace with the wrist slaps.

messengerfm

FYI, Bucky16, in spite of your apparent intense interest in this whole controversy, you, like most casual fans, MIS-REMEMBER and/or MIS-REPRESENT the circumstances of Kyle Busch’s confrontation with Ron Hornaday and subsequent severe penalty. Kyle Busch WAS NOT – REPEAT, NOT – on probation at the time of the incident. You, again like most casual observers, ASSUME that Kyle was on probation, because it seemed he spent most of that phase of his career on probation. However, a check of the FACTS shows that Kyle’s probation for a previous encounter with Kevin Harvick had EXPIRED before the Hornaday incident. Furthermore, Kyle’s participation in the race was in pursuit of an owner’s championship, which he believed Hornaday was purposely interfering with as a KHI driver. The concept of “non-points” driver was NOT yet in effect at the time of the incident. So, your whole argument that Kyle was participating in an “exhibition” is totally without merit. He was eligible for both driver and owner points at the time.

In short, the major problem with NASCAR’s inconsistent application of penalties actually stems from the Busch-Hornaday incident (which was precipitated by on-track contact from Hornaday directed at Busch). NO DRIVER has been suspended for a similar incident “disrputing the orderly conduct of a NASCAR event,” even though there have been several cases of these incidents occurring. Note that Jeff Gordon was given a slap on the wrist for intentionally wrecking Clint Bowyer while Bowyer was still in contention for the Cup championship and that Hornaday was also given NO PENALTY for intentionally wrecking KBM driver Darrell Wallace, Jr. under caution.

If you are going to write a book-length legal opinion on these issues, it would behoove you to get the facts right going in. The main issue here is that NASCAR has ignored its own precedent in applying penalties since the Kyle Busch incident.. If anyone has a beef in retrospect, it is Busch who was singled out for the most severe of penalties, a precedent NASCAR has refused to follow for its more favored drivers.

Linda Ammon Walden

thank you! I am a Kyle Busch fan and I have tried to explain what you just did, and no one wants to hear it. Too much “hate.”

buckie16

I stand corrected. I replied above… Kudos & tyvm.

Brian

All of them should have been penalized in some way shape or form. Keselowski got the biggest and rightly so Stewart got nailed for his actions and rightly so. Why Hamlin who instigated the chasing through the garage area with the 2 cars got off with nothing is beyond me. He did not creep along as one poster indicated. Keselowsi’s actions in the garage area do not happen if the 11 is not “chasing” him through there.
For Kenseth, he should have been fine for blindsiding Keselowski. Mears was facing Ambrose when punched, an unexpected punch, but it was not a blindside attack like Kenseth did.

Hamlin is a whiny baby for basic simple racing incident that he himself has one numerous times.
He should be the least penalized but still needed a penalty.

Now NASCAR not only needs to overcome the perception of favoring Hendrick at a moments notice but now also has the perception of favoring JGR and to an extent Toyota.
This does not seem to sit well with many longtime fans as Chevy has “always” seemed to get off lighter than others, or has favorable rulings, etc. Again NASCAR has done this to themselves yet again.

buckie16

Fyi – Probation is a penalty.

buckie16

More to your 5 points:

1. JGR team orders can be implied, but evidence of intent is largely absent. ABC, nor anybody else, has show a vid of the #20 hitting the #2 under caution. So, I will not prematurely condemn #20, thought the inference is there. Regardless, it seems #20 swiping the #2 during caution could have damaged the #20 just as easily as the #2. Since they are both essentially on the bubble, the accusation doesn’t add up. As for the #11, three-wide blocking the #2 very late in the race, it also just does not seem to add up with regard to sufficient evidence of intentional results manipulation. For Nascar to be playing favorites, 50k would have to meaningfully hurt the #2. It does not. With the Boyer “itchy-elbow-gate” the teams inexplicably & specifically discussed manipulation, at length, on the radio. Radio communications that Nascar governs & secured to undeniably prove intent. Seemingly, nothing like that exists regarding the events at Charlotte, so meh? I believe Robin Pemberton is fully aware & I think his critics would be foolish to believe he & his crew is not carefully scrutinizing this theory.

2. Uh, get real perhaps? Marcos deployed a severely potent right hook to the cranium of Mr. Mears. Then a full blown fracas of fist-a-cuffs broke out involving a bevy of crew-members’ knuckles flying. Now THIS is a fight! MK v BK is a scrawny geek dweeb hair pulling & kicking sorry excuse, that more resembling a cat-fight. THAT’s not a fight! Mk essentially is penalized (via probation) for his actions on the track (swiping the #2 under caution). This “fight” did not create a safety breech, like the Gordon v Burton match, which occurred on a live track. This shoving match got a little if-ie for a few seconds, but amounted to nothing. No harm – no foul!

3. First of all, if #2 gets parked, so does #11! Strange, how everyone seems to vilify #2, but gives #11 a free pass for essentially the same behavior. Might this be because #2 has 5x the wins of the entire JGR outfit this year? Regardless & despite the exaggerated, if not fictitious reports & commentary emanating form the fans, the JGR camp & some of the media, there are no suspensions because it would simply not be consistent with Nascar’s punitive history (some of which I sited below). Had someone been hurt, we would be talking about an entirely different scenario, but no one was, so we are talking about “what-if’s” Aka: contrived DRAMA! Probation comes first!

4. As stated, the stuff with the #2 & #11’s is simply excusable as “racing”. And the cool-down lap stuff between #2, #11 & #20 is pretty harmless & is in essence, within limitations, promoted by Nascar. However, seemingly, per Nascar punitive standards. the games stop at the pit-in orange cone, which is where #20 earned his penalty. He was on pit road proper & the previous paint swapping was on the track. Then, as #11 pursued the #2 thru the pits, behind the wall & thru the garage, I have seen no vid that shows the #11 contacting the #2, or otherwise severely breeching safety. So, other than prematurely removing his helmet & belts, which he & #20 comically attempted to use to vilify #2 (when it was they who voluntarily compromised their safety), I saw nothing flagrant by the #11.

5. Imo, the chase has been a useless gimmick from day one. A four (or ten) race “playoff champion” does NOT a season champions make! Get rid of the gimmick! That said, from all that I have seen of occurrence from the pits & behind the wall at Charlotte, again, I see no serious breech of safety (other than #20 reversing against the orderly flow of traffic to smash a parked car to *ell & the #11 & #20 prematurely removing their safety gear). And nothing that justifies the rampant & ill-informed drama. Many statements & claims are grossly exaggerated. wholly unsubstantiated & misplaced within the guise of history. And the newbie commentary that events like this attract are down right hilarious in their magnitude of cluelessness, among a few that are out-of-bounds by any measure of civility & respect.

As I have said hundreds of time this week, if evidence & punitive history do not support your opinion, do not let that prevent you from making **it up. In closing, I’d like to share an several applicable Nascar proverb…, First, when in doubt, LEAVE YOUR HELMET ON! Lastly, be a real man, park it, unstrap, climb out & settle it face to face. Nothing justifies using a vehicle for ANY form of retaliation. Not anywhere or anytime! Period!

CL

Nascar’s response was expected. They did not do anything. I think Harvick predicted that they wouldn’t.

Between Talladega and Martinsville, it will all be resolved to Nascar’s satisfaction.

This is what they wanted with this format, and the non-action should not come as a surprise……

Jim

Should have just parked all 4 them for Talladega. They are turning this into roller derby, and wrestling. This chase stuff is stupid, they should just pay a lot more points for a win throughout the season, where it worth going for the win. The old point system would have just worked fine if they had did that. Reward winning throughout the year. The only problem with the old system was it rewarding hanging around. The championship only really became a subject when Earnhardt started getting close to Petty. The teams for most part used to wanted to win the most races and as many of the Big 4 , Daytona, 500. Talladega 500. World 600, and the Southern 500 as they could. If this chase was supposed to be so good the why are the stands not full, and the ratings when I check on Jayski after that weekend are always down from the previous seasons year after year.I love this sport and I just want it to be the best it can be, respected and not perceived as joke like wrestling and roller derby

messengerfm

FYI, Bucky16, in spite of your apparent intense interest in this whole controversy, you, like most casual fans, MIS-REMEMBER and/or MIS-REPRESENT the circumstances of Kyle Busch’s confrontation with Ron Hornaday and subsequent severe penalty. Kyle Busch WAS NOT – REPEAT, NOT – on probation at the time of the incident. You, again like most casual observers, ASSUME that Kyle was on probation, because it seemed he spent most of that phase of his career on probation. However, a check of the FACTS shows that Kyle’s probation for a previous encounter with Kevin Harvick had EXPIRED before the Hornaday incident. Furthermore, Kyle’s participation in the race was in pursuit of an owner’s championship, which he believed Hornaday was purposely interfering with as a KHI driver. The concept of “non-points” driver was NOT yet in effect at the time of the incident. So, your whole argument that Kyle was participating in an “exhibition” is totally without merit. He was eligible for both driver and owner points at the time.

In short, the major problem with NASCAR’s inconsistent application of penalties actually stems from the Busch-Hornaday incident (which was precipitated by on-track contact from Hornaday directed at Busch). NO DRIVER has been suspended for a similar incident “disrputing the orderly conduct of a NASCAR event,” even though there have been several cases of these incidents occurring. Note that Jeff Gordon was given a slap on the wrist for intentionally wrecking Clint Bowyer while Bowyer was still in contention for the Cup championship and that Hornaday was also given NO PENALTY for intentionally wrecking KBM driver Darrell Wallace, Jr. under caution.

If you are going to write a book-length legal opinion on these issues, it would behoove you to get the facts right going in. The main issue here is that NASCAR has ignored its own precedent in applying penalties since the Kyle Busch incident.. If anyone has a beef in retrospect, it is Busch who was singled out for the most severe of penalties, a precedent NASCAR has refused to follow for its more favored drivers.

buckie16

Who you calling casual? Pfft!

Ahhhh… On .com other fans swore up & down he was & convinced me to believe them because originally I said NO, he was not on probation during the TX CWT RH incident. Nor was I corrected on your astute points points. Tyvm.

“Inconsistent” seems to be a matter of opinion, because differing circumstances apply to the instances you mentioned, & every instance. I, for one, believe it appropriate to consider extenuating circumstances. I see it as modeled after our legal system. DOJ definitely takes into account prior offenses. Imo, so should Nascar.

Regardless, the crux of my statement, I believe to be true. That is, no points or suspensions are applicable to the Charlotte happen-stance, in-essence because of what I’ve said already. It didn’t happen during the points event & no one was on probation. I will be sure to share my better understanding. Kudos & thanks again.

messengerfm

Extenuating circumstance and prior offenses seem to apply only to the Busch brothers. After all, this was not Brad’s first rodeo either. He’s been Bad Brad before and we all know he got a pass simply because one NASCAR rule and its corollary were controlling here: Chase drivers can do whatever they want, unless their last name is “Busch.”

I just want the all the cards laid on the table.

phil h

Amy Henderson……..Nascar hasn’t gotten better ratings? The race Saturday night, even in a football delay, was the #1 program of the night!

Source?
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/ratings.aspx?id=broadcast_20141011

it out rated the so called American pastime Major League Baseball National League Championship Series Game 1.

put that in your #5 paragraph and smoke it!

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